How Quickly is C&C Catching on?

[gideon_thorne]

ANY rule system and inventive players and a cooperative game master can produce just about any results they want. My point was that the rule system alone does little to differentiate characters. Prime attributes provide for a few variations, very few compared to the number of skills, feats, and prestige classes available in 3e.

My point is that C&C is simple and should be advertised that way. It's not going to satisfy someone who likes 3e.

Bolie IV

C&C has always been advertized as simple. No ones ever said its been advertized as complex.

I guess it depends on how one looks at the rules system. There are people out there, many of them, who dont need large numbers of skills, feats, prestiege classe or any such things to make a variety of characters. All such detail ever did for me was give me a barking headache. (poor memory for details on my part )

Breaking all that 'stuff'' down very simply. What do all these skills and feats and whatnot do? They provide a framework or a prod to the imagination. After a while the framework becomes unneccesarry. Sure, all these 'details' can help the mathmatically oriented add up a variety of numbers on a sheet. But they arent doing anything that the imagination can't do. Alter the probability of a die roll certainly, but ulimately the differentiation of character comes from the player and always has, no matter what system is used. After all, the player makes the choices of what combo of gizmo's on the character is needed.

And fyi, I have played 3rd edition and know of what I speak. Ive played all editions of the game and find that as time went on I was less interested in mechanical details as I was into the story and evolution of the character itself.

 

[cleaverthepit]

I am glad you bought the book though

I hope that the CKG provides you and Mythmere the perfect combo.

davis

 

[bolie]

For the record, I've played 1e, Basic (Expert, Advanced, Immortal), the old Blue Book version, 3e, 3.5e, as well as GURPS, Feng Shui, and a host of other games.

All of these are games. I find that having a consistent rule set allows for me to better judge what my character can and can't do. No game like this is going to be 100% realistic. It would be tedious if it were. So the rules are a balance between playability and realism. There is no right balance, of course, so each set of rules seeks a different balance.

3e has a lot of rules and a lot of options within those rules. That means I can find rules to cover a wide variety of situations. It also means that the rules are more complex.

Personally, I like having rules. I like systems. If I don't have rules, I'll find myself trying to come up with rules. I don't like handling each event as a form of exception. I find it more mental effort to come up with a general solution to every problem than to look up a rule that someone else already worked out, even if it's not the best rule ever.

My comments have been addressed to those who have said something to the effect of "Not having all those rules makes it EASIER to do a lot of different things." I find that statement to be self-contradictory. Sure, it's easier if you want to make up rules as you go. And there are people who prefer to do just that. But the system doesn't do that. You have to. My comments have been about the system. The system of C&C is very simple and has some good and bad features.

Anyone can come up with neat character concepts, role-playing bits, and background material for any game or any rule system.

I do very much look forward to seeing optional, modular rule sets to add more to the C&C system. Most of my problems with C&C will likely be handled by adding rules like this.

I have been quite happy to play C&C with Mythmere as my dm even though I don't necessarily like the system as is. Most of my enjoyment is out of the role-playing parts of the game and for the rest, we can house rule as we go.

But he's going to play 3e when one of the others of us is DM.

Bolie IV

 

[gideon_thorne]

I have been quite happy to play C&C with Mythmere as my dm even though I don't necessarily like the system as is. Most of my enjoyment is out of the role-playing parts of the game and for the rest, we can house rule as we go.

But he's going to play 3e when one of the others of us is DM.

Bolie IV

*impish grin* Fair enough.

 

[Von Ether]

I would like to see one xp chart and multiclassing, but the saving throw system is awesome. I much prefer having all ability checks handled the same way and stat bonus + level seems to work fine.

Having both a Con stat and a Fort save means having to figure out what's a Con check and what's a Fort save. If everything is a Fort save, than why wouldn't Str checks be Str saves with an appropriate modifier?

Just my $.02.

Oh, and I agree 100% about the players and the DM mattering more than the system. That's why I'm happy to play C&C with Mythmere. When I'm playing, I prefer to focus on playing and the plot and such. The rules are there to facilitate that.

Bolie IV

Hmmm. You'll have to sell me more on the savings throws, but hey, I am open on expanding it by one simply on the idea of giving Charisma more use. This is because I'm the opposite on the fly, to me I feel pretty confident which of the three Savings Throw I want to apply, adding more makes me nervous that my players will try to find ways to "Peterification" a Reflex roll simply for a better chance at a save.

For me, the idea of "arcane magic and Illusion" is redundent. House rule already. YMMV, but I get the feeling that's its one of the facets of CnC that makes me feel it plays more to the "nostaliga/reuse that old AD&D module for the 10th time in 20 years" crowd as compared to offering a simplier rule set. But it may yet grow on me.

The single XP chart and multiclassing? I'm much more stringent on those, so consider me a possible 2 out of 3 guy. I'm glad to hear that the upcoming book offer tons of options and it would even be cooler if my options were in there. But honestly, I'd even take a PDF or an Internet fan created thing as long as it worked well and let me introduce those two items into CnC.

If they really wanted to make me buy, they could promise a Eberron conversion PDF and I'd do some pre-ordering at the FLGS tomorrow. LOL!

 

[Breakdaddy]

If they really wanted to make me buy, they could promise a Eberron conversion PDF and I'd do some pre-ordering at the FLGS tomorrow. LOL!

I dont think that they can legally do that, though I might be wrong on that.

 

[gideon_thorne]

If they really wanted to make me buy, they could promise a Eberron conversion PDF and I'd do some pre-ordering at the FLGS tomorrow. LOL!

*chuckles* Funny thing... check out Amazon and look up the Castles and Crusades book. There is a bit where some dealer offers the C&C players book and the Ebberon campaign setting as a package deal. The irony is epic.

Sides...there is nothing to converting 3.5 stuff to C&C. Just make feats into class abilities and prestige classes into base classes. Which amounts to no more than deciding what prime is appropriate to the class needing converting.

 

[Breakdaddy]

Sides...there is nothing to converting 3.5 stuff to C&C. Just make feats into class abilities and prestige classes into base classes. Which amounts to no more than deciding what prime is appropriate to the class needing converting.

Dunno bout that one. If you give the monsters all of their feats as class abilities, then the PCs will be outclassed most of the time in the absence of feats for themselves. Plus you will have players that will inevitable be upset that they dont get the cool feats that the monsters are getting to use.

 

[gideon_thorne]

Dunno bout that one. If you give the monsters all of their feats as class abilities, then the PCs will be outclassed most of the time in the absence of feats for themselves. Plus you will have players that will inevitable be upset that they dont get the cool feats that the monsters are getting to use.

Umm...thats why I said convert all the feats into class abilties. I just didn't mean for monsters.

Sides. Its not sposed to be easy to beat monsters all the time. The sensable person avoids unneccessary conflict.

 

[Breakdaddy]

Sides. Its not sposed to be easy to beat monsters all the time. The sensable person avoids unneccessary conflict.

All that means is that you havent met my players