D&D (2024) How should the Wizard subclasses be revised?

[Gorck]

The big issue is that wizards are just a huge pile of mush because of the shared spell list. The necromancer, the conjurer, and the illusionist all show up to the table with Sleep. The abjurer, the evoker, and the oracle all show up with fireball. There's almost zero differentiation between spellcasters that should have different abilities and feel.

When 5e first came out I tried to play a necromancer. I wound up with the exact same spell list as the other wizard at the table and effectively the same abilities. Super lame. Things like the necromancer and summoner are just obvious examples of how things could be done differently from 5e because we've seen them handled differently in a million other video games, anime, etc. DnD just needs to step up and make things special instead of relying on the generic spell list as a class feature.

Maybe they should revamp the Specialist Wizard subclasses like they do the Eldritch Knight or the Arcane Trickster where you need to have a certain percentage of your spells from your specialist school. Or like how 3e did it, where you had to give up another school. Or both.

 

[Minigiant]

If OneD&D was a do over, I'd go will Dual School Subclasss

Battle Mage (Abjuration & Evocation)
Nethermancy (Illusion & Necromancy)
Summoning (Conjuration and Enchantment)
Rune Magic (Divination & Transmutation)

 

[Remathilis]

Maybe they should revamp the Specialist Wizard subclasses like they do the Eldritch Knight or the Arcane Trickster where you need to have a certain percentage of your spells from your specialist school. Or like how 3e did it, where you had to give up another school. Or both.

The problem is that right now, there aren't enough spells to make dedicated specialists. I mean, have you tried to make a caster who focuses on something like summons, necromancy, or fire magic? At best you get one spell per level and a lot of redundant effects. You'd have to add I'd say a good 50 to 100 more spells to the game to make that work. It is still a struggle to get simple concepts like elementalists or shadow mages to work without having to dip into the Top 20 Best Wizard spells to round them out.

 

[Remathilis]

If OneD&D was a do over, I'd go will Dual School Subclasss

Battle Mage (Abjuration & Evocation)
Nethermancy (Illusion & Necromancy)
Summoning (Conjuration and Enchantment)
Rune Magic (Divination & Transmutation)

The issue with dual-schools is that there would be a lot of people who disagree with the pairings. Some might thing Illusion and Necromancy pair, but just as many might say a it belongs with enchantment (mind magics). Evocation and Abjuration are offense and defense, but Conjuration and Evocation are complementary magic that brings things into being. You would never get people to agree on any set of pairings, and eventually you'd get 105 subclasses trying to make every combination of pairs to work.

 

[Minigiant]

The issue with dual-schools is that there would be a lot of people who disagree with the pairings. Some might thing Illusion and Necromancy pair, but just as many might say a it belongs with enchantment (mind magics). Evocation and Abjuration are offense and defense, but Conjuration and Evocation are complementary magic that brings things into being. You would never get people to agree on any set of pairings, and eventually you'd get 105 subclasses trying to make every combination of pairs to work.

Perhaps that might be a reason for 0, 1, 2, or 3 school specialists

School of Generalists (no favored school)
School of Specialists (1 favored school)
School of Mavericks (2 favored schools)
School of Iconoclasts (3 favored schools)

 

[Gorck]

I was giving this some thought yesterday and this is as far as I got with my notes:

Energy manipulation
Evocation - manipulate energy of elements
Necromancy - manipulate energy of life & death

Mind penetration
Enchantment - affect minds
Illusion - deceive the senses

Matter affects
Conjuration - summon; teleport; create objects
Transmutation - change properties of items/creatures

Detect & Protect
Abjuration- protective; create barriers; banish
Divination - reveal information

As you can see I ran out of steam with the last one. It was difficult to find a common theme with those two schools that I had left over. And I intended to go back and rename them as well.

 

[Scott Christian]

I'll be honest, does the wizard subclass need revising for OneD&D? I feel like the wizard was done so weel for 5e, they shouldn't make any changes.

 

[bedir than]

I'll be honest, does the wizard subclass need revising for OneD&D? I feel like the wizard was done so weel for 5e, they shouldn't make any changes.

They're definitely changing how the subclasses work. Each class in the next PHB will have 4 subclasses

 

[FitzTheRuke]

None of them based on spell schools at all. Spell schools go away once and for all.

Wizard gets Blaster, Shield mage, Summoner (is also necromancer), and Oracle.

Bards gets to eat enchantment and illusion spells.

Sorcerer gets transmutation.

Cleric gets divination

That's great!

... For a version of D&D that isn't simply a step-forward from 5e.

Honestly, I'd be fine (happy even) with a version of D&D that throws away things that no one really cares about (even if they think they do) like spell schools, but we all know it ain't happening any time soon.

My take (For what I think they can do with what we've stuck with):

If they gotta keep the schools, then I suggest that they combine a few of them when making specialists. We're probably stuck with Illusionist and Necromancer (because of tradition) and Evoker, but an Evoker is probably best as a Battle Mage.

So, yeah. Battle Mage; Illusionist; Necromancer & Summoner are my picks for subclasses when we're stuck at four.

 

[NaturalZero]

Maybe they should revamp the Specialist Wizard subclasses like they do the Eldritch Knight or the Arcane Trickster where you need to have a certain percentage of your spells from your specialist school. Or like how 3e did it, where you had to give up another school. Or both.

Remathilis pretty much covered this but when i picked up 5e, the issue was that you literally couldn't kit your necromancer out with necromancy spells. 95%+ of your build was the exact same as every other wizard because there just wasn't enough to fill out the concept. There are a bunch of things like necromancer, elementalist, and summoner that deserve to get full class features instead of sharing the same spell list with every other wizard at the table.

I'll be honest, does the wizard subclass need revising for OneD&D? I feel like the wizard was done so weel for 5e, they shouldn't make any changes.

I guess this goes to show that if you take 2 different DND players, you might get 2 completely diametrically opposed views on what is done well.

So, yeah. Battle Mage; Illusionist; Necromancer & Summoner are my picks for subclasses when we're stuck at four.

I'd much, much rather wizard subclasses work like this instead of the piddly school subclasses. Give necromancer a full kit of undead animation and spirit control. Give the illusionist a full set of illusion and sound manipulation. Give the summoner big, unique summons and a pet. Give the wizard subclasses special stuff instead of just letting the class be a pile of old tofu.