How should the Wizard subclasses be revised?

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Nah, that's the Swashbuckler.

And his name is ...?

 

[Parmandur]

And his name is ...?

No, I got that part.

 

[Parmandur]

For reference, this is how the popularity of Subclasses fared in 2019 amongst actively used PCs for players who had bought everything, might hold some hints at what we can expect in the new PHB, notice that Bladesinger was the most popular Wizard followed by the War Mage:

 

[Leatherhead]

While I do think the Bladesinger is a shoo-in, what would also imply that the Order of Scribes is going in too.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

notice that Bladesinger was the most popular Wizard followed by the War Mage

Tied with the school of blowing stuff up.

 

[Parmandur]

Tied with the school of blowing stuff up.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[Parmandur]

While I do think the Bladesinger is a shoo-in, what would also imply that the Order of Scribes is going in too.

Hmmmm, we don't have this sort of info post-Tasha's...but WotC does, do it will be interesting to see where they go.

 

[Gorck]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

It’s the school of blowing stuff up, so … if it ain’t broke, break it.

 

[Neonchameleon]

The problem is that right now, there aren't enough spells to make dedicated specialists. I mean, have you tried to make a caster who focuses on something like summons, necromancy, or fire magic? At best you get one spell per level and a lot of redundant effects. You'd have to add I'd say a good 50 to 100 more spells to the game to make that work. It is still a struggle to get simple concepts like elementalists or shadow mages to work without having to dip into the Top 20 Best Wizard spells to round them out.

The core problem is the way spell schools work with a second problem being that Nethermancy (shadow magic/debuffs) covers far far more of the "Necromancy" school than anything to do with the actual dead does.

Genuinely specialist mages work better as sorcerers than they do wizards most of the time; your spell list is much more limited. But the problem is that spells can't slip schools. As a Dread Necromancer (i.e. Sorcerer subclass) I don't want to cast "Mage Armour" - I want to cast "Bone Armour" which is a renamed Mage Armour that has been moved into the Necromancy school and thus gets whatever bonus you get for casting Necromantic spells. I don't want to cast "Unseen Servant", I want to cast "Spectral Servant". Again either unchanged or barely changed other than being in the "wrong" school.

So for example for an Ice Elementalist I'd start with something like:

Ice Magic. Ice Elementalists get to add ice variants of the following spells to their spell list. All damage done is ice damage and anything created is created out of ice and may be as transparent or opaque as the caster wishes; Ice constructs are vulnerable to fire damage. The name in brackets is a suggested name for the ice variant; notes after the brackets and this is just up to second level

• Chill Touch (Freezing Touch)
• Resistance
• Shilleleagh (Ice Club) - may create an icicle with club or quarterstaff stats
• Shocking Grasp (Freezing Grasp)
• Burning Hands (Frost Breath)
• Create or Destroy Water (Create or Destroy Ice) - if destroying it flash freezes, if creating it comes as snow before melting
• Expeditious Retreat (Ice Skates)
• Fog Cloud
• Grease (Ice Slick)
• Mage Armour (Ice Armour)
• Shield (Ice Barrier)
• Sleep (Icy Slumber)
• Unseen Servant (Icy Servant) - most specialist schools have a variant of this
• Animal Messenger (Ice Messenger) - you create an animal out of ice or a snowman
• Arcane Lock (Ice Lock - or possibly just ICE)
• Augury (Ice Divination)
• Blindness/Deafness (Snow Blindness) - Blind Only
• Hold Person (Ice Prison)
• Levitate (Ice Platform)
• Magic Mouth (Ice Mouth) - again most specialist schools have their own variant
• Shatter (Flash Freeze)
• Spike Growth (Icicle Growth)
• Web (Ice Web)

I don;t need an extra spell to let Elsa create her palaces of ice. I just need permission to make Ice variants of Wall of Stone (Wall of Permafrost?) and Sculpt Stone.

As much as I like the schools of magic, I think they were better in 2e/3e where you specialised gaining bonus spells and losing access to others.

I couldn't disagree more. The 5e mages being better at their specialist school and the spells in it is far more evocative and meaningful for a specialist than being a cookie cutter mage with just extra spells from a field (especially when the 3.5 wizards could choose divination and drop evocation that had about three good spells that couldn't be roughly matched by conjuration).

 

[Eyes of Nine]

Divination - 14 spells (one cantrip (true strike), so few spells overall, no 6th or 7th level spells) - Nope.

No more Portent - my favorite (as a player) class feature

 

[Yaarel]

Alright, so it has come to my attention that Jeremy Crawford actually confirmed the Necromancer will be a Wizard Subclass they test, so I'm thinking now that we will see:

• Evoker, classic Fireball launcher
• Illusionist, classic D&D archetype
• Necromancer, spooky fun
• Bladesinger, Elf-ish

Where is Necromancer Wizard subclass mentioned?

 

[Parmandur]

Where is Necromancer Wizard subclass mentioned?

Posted the video upthread, in the last minute or so.

 

[Carlsen Chris]

We need to get rid of all (full)spellcasting classes.

Have one spell list available to all.

One class.

spells know on level of sorcerer.

Make sub classes with bonus spells: 2 spells from cantrips to 5th level, per spell level.

Have bonus class features give flavor/mechanics to the mage/spellcaster.

then you can have your, battlemage, healer, summoner, greenseer, mindbender,


if you have all spells available to all, then you only need to balance out sub class features, as players will soon pick out most useful spells and you can count on that in balance equation.
And since it's based on spells known, spellcaster cant be swiss army knife and have new sets of spells after every rest.
Just replacing one spell every level.

No we need to get rid of spellcasting by PCs entirely and only let evil things like devils and demons cast spells.

 

[Parmandur]

No we need to get rid of spellcasting by PCs entirely and only let evil things like devils and demons cast spells.

Bellisimo

 

[Remathilis]

No we need to get rid of spellcasting by PCs entirely and only let evil things like devils and demons cast spells.

We need to get rid of all fantasy elements and get the game back to its roots: reenacting the Battle of Hastings and other medieval wars. #Chainmail

 

[bloodtide]

I think they should take the spell school types out of the Players Handbook. They are not a good fit there. To be a school specialist character, you need unique abilities and most of all unique spells. Something like ten specialist school unique spells per level, at least. A school specialist should be a master of a school of magic, not just one that casts the same spells other wizards cast. I would put them in their own book.

The Players Handbook should be more the "adventuring" wizards. More "mages of many spells, but master of none".

Bladesinger- Keep them, a lot of players like this one. And the "fighter/mage" is a D&D classic, and it's a nice call back to Gandalf too...

Elementalist- A classic too. A mix of the four elements.

Dark Cloak- the mix of gray illusions, darkness and necromancy

Wilder- There is a lot of under ground love for this type of caster..one that "breaks" the wizard rules

Those would make for good "generic type" characters. And one even new players can get.

 

[Yaarel]

Illusion is more about quasi-real Ethereal Force. Illusion is important to Fey flavor and Shadow flavor. For Fey, Illusion is visualizations of success, beauty, status, and future possibilities and fates. For Shadow, Illusion is about ghostly fading memories of the past when alive. Either way, the Ether encompasses both Fey and Shadow. Fey is the part of the Ether that Positivity energizes. Shadow is the part of the Ether that Negativity disintegrates.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Illusion is more about quasi-real Ethereal Force. Illusion is important to Fey flavor and Shadow flavor. For Fey, Illusion is visualizations of success, beauty, status, and future possibilities and fates. For Shadow, Illusion is about ghostly fading memories of the past when alive. Either way, the Ether encompasses both Fey and Shadow. Fey is the part of the Ether that Positivity energizes. Shadow is the part of the Ether that Negativity disintegrates.

I'm sorry WotC stepped away from the illusion/phantasm/shadow magic divide in 3E, which I thought did a really good job of explaining how the different types of illusionist spells work.