D&D 5E How the game changes when a DM starts to target downed PC's?

[Paul Farquhar]

But if you have never not targeted downed pcs, how are you able to recognize any effect it might have, since you don't have the baseline to compare it to?

Many enemies - such as town guards for example - don't normally target downed enemies, since they aren't sociopaths - the players act exactly the same irrespective of if they think there enemies want to kill them or merely arrest them.

 

[Cadence]

Many enemies - such as town guards for example - don't normally target downed enemies, since they aren't sociopaths -

If one were going at all for realism, I'm guessing some of the guards would be sociopaths, some would probably look down on certain races and not care, and some would go for the kill if the party just took down some of their fellow town guards who were just trying to arrest them.

the players act exactly the same irrespective of if they think there enemies want to kill them or merely arrest them.

Just so I'm not missing it, your players are sociopaths? ;-)

 

[jgsugden]

D&D is an RPG. Characters, and monsters, are playing a role in a story. I (100%) have the motivations and the capabilities of the monsters dictate whether they attack a downed foe. If a pack of wolves attack the PCs and knock a PC below 0, the wolves try to take their piece of flesh - continuing to attack the down foe. If a powerful and wise enemy understands that heroes on the brink sometimes get back up, they make sure the hero does not. However a goblin that sees a foe fall will likely move on to the next foe (your goblins may be different - this is clear for how most goblins act in my setting). As a DM, this is rarely a 'decision' on my part - it is just what makes obvious sense given the creatures involved. There are times when it is a judgment call, and I usually leave that up to the fickleness of the dice.

As for the 'below 0 hp rules' - I set up rules around 3rd edition which translate well into 5E. In my game I have a concept called 'God Touched' (which grows out of Lore from the setting). Basically, if a creature follows the rules in the PHB for advancing in levels, for surviving when reduced below 0, etc... they are God Touched. If a creature is not God Touched, they die when they fail a death save or if their hps drop to a negative number equal to or greater than their con bonus plus their hit dice. And we continue to count at negative hp for them as well.

Non-God Touched also advance in class levels much more slowly - a human spending their entire life studying magic might get to 5th level in 80 years. A dwarf may reach 7th in 300 years. An elf might reach 9th in 700 years of study.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Just so I'm not missing it, your players are sociopaths? ;-)

Actually, they aren't. There is one thing the will do differently - if they think the enemies they are fighting aren't trying to kill them outright they will also hold back and try not to kill the enemies they are fighting. Accidents happen though.

 

[DEFCON 1]

For me, the only time I might attack downed PCs are when the creatures doing so have no other targets within easy reach or those targets are already engaged with their allies so they have the "six seconds" free to spend on the attack. But this usually is only melee combatants who have this availability, because spellcasters and ranged attackers usually have one of the PCs within range to deal with and will not "waste time" in the fight picking over the bodies lying bloody and prone across the battlefield.

Last time it happened was when the party was waiting to ambush a 40 member orc raid, and the ranger character was out by herself in the ruins of a small tower ready to attack. But when the ambush happened, she made the mistake of running out of the ruins in the opposite direction of the rest of the party and thus was caught by the back line of the orcs. With 30+ orcs out in front engaging the party... when a few of the half-dozen in the back took the ranger out and she fell... the remaining axe-wielding orcs had nothing better to do that round because all their other possible targets were behind the wall of the 30+ orc allies in front of them. So they just chopped up the downed ranger because why not? Make sure that one ain't getting back up.

 

[Maxperson]

A fairly typical way of playing 5e is to never/rarely have enemies target downed and dying PC's. There's a good reason for this style becoming common - something feels unnatural about having enemies engage in what everyone knows is currently a non-threat when other PC's are there trying to kick their butts. However, I'm starting to believe this is an unintended playstyle and is the culprit for many of the issues with 5e. Whack-a-mole, overall deadliness, short rest/long rest imbalance, etc.

The bolded parts sit in opposition to each other. The latter makes the former untrue. The unconscious PC is a threat, because whack-a-mole. Best way to stay safe is to whack the mole before it gets up.

I also believe there's a strong way to fictionally justify attacking downed PC's so that you don't have to feel like the 'bad guy' for doing so. Just tell the players the enemies can perceive if you are dead or not, but simply don't know how long you are going to stay down if you are still living and so finishing you off before you have a chance to potentially get back up is typically their best course of action. Now they know they are going to be targeted and can plan accordingly.

I'm talking with my players about switching to -10 hit points for the next 5e game and just getting rid of stopping at 0 and death saves. A lot of the low level healing whack-a-mole spells might not bring up a PC who is at -7, and further, even if you get 9 hit points back, do you really want to just hop back into combat with 2 hit points and death at -10? It will also help me make the game more dangerous without feeling like a bad guy for marking a downed PC for death.

 

[Maxperson]

Dead people don't breathe. Unconscious ones do. Doesn't seem that hard. Especially given 5e's hyper combat awareness that's already provided.

If you've ever watched a sleeping person, then you know that it can sometimes takes several seconds to see them breathe. They tend to breathe shallower and more slowly when unconscious. If they are armored, this can be even more of a problem. It would take at least a round to determine if someone was alive or dead, and wasting a round to see if you need to hack down someone is even worse than hacking at someone that is already dead. If you wait, you may end up having to swing at them after the wasted round, taking 2 rounds to kill them, and that's if one of their comrades hasn't already brought them conscious while you were waiting.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

I had foes kill downed PCs twice last mini-campaign.

First one was an action-surging half-dragon that cut down and finished off fighter1 in a duel set-up. Infatuated acolyte raised her but killed self using scroll way beyond ability.

Second one was in the final battle where fighter2's held the left flank against heavy attack. Healing had been used. Said half-dragon cut down fighter2 and berserker finished him off. Fighter2 had developed a penchant for decapitating sleeping foes, so suffered said fate. Backline warlock stayed well back, drawing no heat.

Session 0, I state that character stories are true, i.e. what goes around comes around. I also say that no truly permanent death unless player wants to, so there's a raise dead option.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Regarding whether characters can tell whether a downed creature is alive, I think it's fine as long as you keep it consistent. You could even have creatures making death saves instinctively struggle to get up (like a boxer who's been downed but not KO'd). At that point an observer would be hard pressed not to recognize that the creature is alive.

I only have creatures target downed PCs if I think it makes sense for them to do so. When I do, it certainly does make them sit up and take notice.

 

[Asisreo]

When in doubt about determining dead vs unconscious characters, I'll let them roll Wisdom.

I'll also let them apply a skill if they can justify it.

Them: "I want to see if they're trauma would cause them to die."

Me: "Make a DC whatever Medicine check."

Or

Them: "I want to watch and see if they're breathing."

Me: "Alright, make a DC whatever Perception check at the end of your turn." (I might be more generous in the moment, idk).