D&D 5E (2014) How the game changes when a DM starts to target downed PC's?

[Cadence]

RE: Revivify

Seen in a FB group today.

 

[Ancalagon]

There could be a special reason that you might hit on downed PC(depending on initiative order), but in addition to trying to eliminate still active target, you also force downed PC companions to spend non optimal actions.

I.E. it is better to force the paladin to use cure wounds(any level) than killing paladins comrade and than suck on 2 attacks from a greatsword with 2 smites added on.

Now, AoE attack are great for downed opposition, you deal "death save fail" in addition to dealing HP damage to still active opponents.

I think your analysis is missing an aspect. Sure, as a monster, it's better to force the paladin to heal than have it hit you in the face. But that comrade who gets healed by the paladin... THEY might hit you in the face (or cast fireball or...). This is why bringing back a downed ally can be a good move from the Paladin's perspective.

100% agree with you on AoE... but not every foe has that.

 

[Asisreo]

I think your analysis is missing an aspect. Sure, as a monster, it's better to force the paladin to heal than have it hit you in the face. But that comrade who gets healed by the paladin... THEY might hit you in the face (or cast fireball or...). This is why bringing back a downed ally can be a good move from the Paladin's perspective.

I feel that, regardless, that's 1 full-action less than what the monster would have been hit by. And multiattack picks up the slack when that 1d4+5 HP only takes 1/3rd of the monster's action to reduce to 0 again.

 

[S'mon]

If PCs can tell fallen PCs aren't dead, then NPCs can tell fallen PCs aren't dead.

I know whenever I make death saves for a fallen NPC, the PCs go all out to finish them off. Having NPCs not target fallen PCs is the GM saying "I don't want to hurt you".

 

[ccooke]

I will absolutely target downed PCs during a fight, but only when it feels like a reasonable response to the situation.

Generally, that means when the PCs are fighting an intelligent enemy who is feeling hard-pressed, wants the party dead and when the PCs have displayed that they can bring a downed combatant back up. At that point, I'll have one of their opponents shout out something along the lines of "They have a healer - make sure they stay down". At that point, any combatant that isn't fighting for its life might spare a single attack on a dying character. After all, there's no point in taking the time to ensure a downed enemy is actually dead if it costs you your own life.

 

[Asisreo]

The question can be more easily resolved with a different question:

If your party was facing a group of monsters where one was at 0hp and making death saves while there was at least 1 enemy that could heal them, who would you prioritize attacking first?

 

[FrogReaver]

If PCs can tell fallen PCs aren't dead, then NPCs can tell fallen PCs aren't dead.

I know whenever I make death saves for a fallen NPC, the PCs go all out to finish them off. Having NPCs not target fallen PCs is the GM saying "I don't want to hurt you".

That's a great point. How exactly are the PC's determining the NPC's are dead when they drop to zero hp. Why aren't the PC's wasting attacks on them trying to make sure they are dead? It's because we all inherently know that PC's can tell that NPC's are dead. For all the real world talk about how we cannot tell when someone is dead, it seems a bit odd to have PC's that can do so and to have no concern for that.

That makes me wonder: why is the notion that NPC's can tell when PC's are dead actually being challenged by people that play that PC's can always tell when NPC's are dead?

 

[Warpiglet-7]

I like it. However, I would educate the group that in battle, people make sure our zero hp foes will die! This is going to be different than some campaigns they have been trained by! Don’t spring this on them.

so 0 hp means staggered, dropped to one knee, trying to rise to their feet.

An armed person in this state would be target for a killing blow.

if they have been at 0 for a while and stabilized, maybe they are just unconscious at that point but in active combat would have it be clear they are trying to recover.

tell the players up front as this will be new for some.

likewise, if monsters fall to 0 perhaps do the same. This will also soak up an attack from players as well.

fair is fair.

but with this, no whack a mole or at least less and getting dropped is closer to really being dropped!

I like it. It’s gritty, more challenging and combat gets some teeth.

 

[Helldritch]

Ho boy, that kind of thread again.
Whack a mole is particular to 5ed. I have stopped the WAM exactly by doing the OP way of doing it.

Some will call it meta gaming and I do not.

1) Foes will not terminate a character unless one has got up first. In essence, if a character falls and only a spare the dying was cast, then foes will not try to "finish" the PC. But if the character gets back up with a healing word or better; it will be a signal for the foes to start making sure that the enemi will not come back to haunt them.

2) Foes will behave differently if they are intelligent or not. An undead might try to get a quick snack or an animal might try to get away with its prey. But an intelligent foe will act upon both what the players will do and the general knowledge they might have. If the players know that fire is needed to end the treath of a troll, so should their enemies know that adventurers can comeback from fallen foes to killing machines in an instant.

3) Once a downed PC gets back up. Intelligent foes will target the cleric or the healer in priority. Even then, if too much healing is done, a healer is better prepared to get a defensive spell or two at the ready. Foes will try to kill him ASAP.

And for those who argue that this is meta gaming. It is not. What players can do, so can their foes. Yes it means that the lethality of my games is high, but this is the goal I had wished to obtain along with my players. I often see some of them standing up during tense fights and they do cheer when they win a particularly hard fight. This forces my players to make and use better tactics and think of imaginative and safe ways to defeat their opponents. So far, I have had no complains from any of my players and pre pandemic, those that were coming to watch our games at our Friday night dungeons always found this gameplay to be both challenging and interesting. Not all fights are to the death, monsters flee and so are the players when the odds are against them.

 

[Nefermandias]

I'm talking with my players about switching to -10 hit points for the next 5e game and just getting rid of stopping at 0 and death saves. A lot of the low level healing whack-a-mole spells might not bring up a PC who is at -7, and further, even if you get 9 hit points back, do you really want to just hop back into combat with 2 hit points and death at -10? It will also help me make the game more dangerous without feeling like a bad guy for marking a downed PC for death.

I wish we had official options to support that or even death at 0.