How the hell do readied actions work!

[Storminator]

Apparently it is complicated enough that you don't have it right (or I am simply misunderstanding you). It is a reaction so the enemy gets to move in and attack the PC and then the PC gets to attack the enemy with its readied action. However, if you wanted to try and attack the enemy before the enemy attacked you with your readied action the only way I can see it happening is if you had reach (or a ranged weapon) and the monster started one square away from you. Correct me if I am wrong.

Um... you are wrong. You set your readied action to attack after the enemy move. The enemy plans the following sequence: 1) move adjacent 2) attack. With your readied action this sequence becomes 1) move adjacent 2) IMMEDIATE REACTION readied attack 3) enemy attack. No reach weapon required.

I'll try and clean up my question so I can get some better opinions on the questions:
Can you say nebulously, "If it attacks or moves I attack it"?
If you have multiple triggers which one of the two possible outcomes in the readied action bullet points could/would it fall under?

Readied actions aren't always the tool for the job. If you want to attack before the enemy does anything, why don't you just attack?

Do you have to say I attack it with a specific power or can you say I attack and then use a power at that point?

I would let a player do either, but I think this question kind of muddies the waters of the order of operations. Is this part really the heart of what you aren't getting?

If the trigger is movement do they get attacked when about to move out of the square but are still in the square or do they move one square and then get attacked by you?

If the trigger is movement, they'll move at least one square first, since your action is an immediate reaction. This makes sense, because you have relinquished the initiative to see what they do.

To interrupt an enemy can you call for a specific square or squares of movement or range or does it have to be the first square they move out of? Furthermore would this fall under immediate reaction or Interrupting an enemy bullet point?

If you train your bow on a goblin, can you wait until it gets close to you before you shoot or do you have to shoot when it begins to move out of its initial square.

You can call for a certain square (I shoot him if he steps on this square), a certain number of squares (I shoot him if he moves 1 square, or I shoot him if he moves 2 squares), or a condition (I shoot him if he moves adjacent to any of my allies). Once the condition you've called for is met your readied action happens. So in order of my examples, you shoot him after he steps into the square, after he moves a single square, after he moves 2 squares, or after he moves adjacent.

If you want to shoot the first thing that comes around the corner. Could it simply come around the corner, see you, move in and attack you, and then because it is a reaction you attack after that? You did not see it before it moved out of its initial square and you cited something coming around the corner and not its movement from that initial square.

It comes around the corner, which meets your readied condition, you shoot it immediately after that, then it continues to move up and attack you.

Speaking of the before it moves out of the initial square to interrupt is that even right?

I'm sure this line makes perfect sense to you. Not to me.

This has been an argument in the group for weeks.

I think most people simply handwave it, than play RAW.

I don't think the RAW is that obscure. But then again, we usually just attack things on our turns.

PS

 

[Neuroglyph]

Moving in and attacking are two different "steps". When the enemy moves into a square such that it will trigger your readied action (an adjacent square in this case) then your readied action (an attack in this case) occurs immediately after that square of movement, before the enemy can attack you (or not attack you, if it chooses that course).

Agreed. The rule are very clear about movement and an attack action being two seperate things, and page 291 in the PHB is quite clear on how you can get the attack off before your enemy does.

Really though, there are alot better things to do with a Readied Action than worrying about who gets the shot off first in a round of melee, such as setting up an ambush or guarding a door and striking when something busts through. Using a Readied action to get "first blood" might not be the best tactic.

The deal breaker in some cases against using a readied action is the risk of having your initiative reset to a much lower initiative, which can be tactically disadvantageous, in later rounds. Just something to consider.

 

[Sadrik]

Um... you are wrong. You set your readied action to attack after the enemy move. The enemy plans the following sequence: 1) move adjacent 2) attack. With your readied action this sequence becomes 1) move adjacent 2) IMMEDIATE REACTION readied attack 3) enemy attack. No reach weapon required.

Interesting opinions. Actually it does not say it works that way, so um you are wrong. There is no mention that you have to resolve a certain action completely before you act with your readied action. Note also that many of your examples that follow do not follow this.

Readied actions aren't always the tool for the job. If you want to attack before the enemy does anything, why don't you just attack?

Can you have multiple triggers or not?

If the trigger is movement, they'll move at least one square first, since your action is an immediate reaction. This makes sense, because you have relinquished the initiative to see what they do.

So again this does not gel with your initial opinion and it does not gel with what is written in the book either. In the book it says that you interrupt their movement:

If you readied an action to attack in response to that enemy’s movement, your readied action interrupts the movement, and you
can attack before the enemy does.

So this has two possible interpretations. 1. it interrupts their move and actually triggers before their movement, so say they decide to teleport out of line of sight you would be able to shoot them before the teleport. 2. it literally goes off during their move action, much of your argument supports this.

This quote dispels the move completely then ready action:

If a creature triggers your immediate reaction while moving (by coming into range, for example), you take your action before the creature finishes moving but after it has moved at least 1 square.

It comes around the corner, which meets your readied condition, you shoot it immediately after that, then it continues to move up and attack you.

Again not gelling with your initial thoughts on the matter.

I don't think the RAW is that obscure.

I think it is pretty obscure because no one seems to be able to come to a consensus on how this action works! I just want to end the argument over it. So please help out.

 

[Steve Jung]

'll try and clean up my question so I can get some better opinions on the questions:
Can you say nebulously, "If it attacks or moves I attack it"?
If you have multiple triggers which one of the two possible outcomes in the readied action bullet points could/would it fall under?

I would say no, since you're reacting to "the action that will trigger your readied action."

Do you have to say I attack it with a specific power or can you say I attack and then use a power at that point?

Yes, you do have to specify the power.

Ready an Action: Choose Action to Ready: Choose the specific action you are readying (what attack you plan to use, for example) as well as your intended target.

 

[Xeterog]

Each square of movement can be reacted to separately.

Remember, there are two types of immediate actions, Reactions and Interrupts. A readied action is a REACTION. It can interrupt a move as you can react to each square they move into, thus interrupting the move action...this does not change the fact that a readied action is an Immediate REACTION, just means that you don't have to wait for them to complete the move before reacting to that move. If they teleport away, your readied action will only go off if their destination square meets the trigger you set, you can't target them in the square they teleported to, since a readied action is an Immediate REACION.

Since a readied action is an Immediate REACTION, they complete the move into a square before you can react to it. However, you can react to each SQUARE of movement they make, you don't have to wait unil they move their entire movement before reacting, nor do you have to wait for them to move, attack, minor to attack (assuming you set your trigger on some form of movement, such as "moves adjacent to me' or "moves within 10 squares of me", etc)

So, simple example. E-enemy, Y-you, .-square
So, on your turn this is your situation before readying
E......Y

An enemy is 7 squares away from you.
Some examples of readied actions:
1) "Attack with melee power X when an enemy moves adjacent to me"
enemy moves
.......EY
as an immediate REACTION to him moving adjacent to you, you attack him with melee power X. Then he gets to attack you (if he wishes to)

2) "If enemy E moves withing 5 of me, I'll shoot him with ranged power Z"
enemy moves
...E....Y
as an immediate REACTION to him moving within 5 squares of you, you can fire off ranged power Y..then he continues his movement
.......EY and attacks you. (assuming you didn't stop him in some way)

3) "if enemy E moves closer to me, I'll shoot off ranged power Y"
then enemy moves
.E......Y but you decide not to shoot, prefering him to get closer.
he moves again (still part of the same move action, btw)
..E.....Y
Still, you wait
...E....Y hmm. looks like he may be coming in closer, so I'll wait for range 5 (maybe for a bonus to hit or damage..I don't care why)...but he stops there and uses a ranged power on you..oops, your readied action can't go off now, as the oppertunity to interrupt his movement has already passed..

and, yes, the PHB rules do state that this is the way it works.

page 291, phb:

Interrupting an Enemy: If you want to use a read-
ied action to attack before an enemy attacks, you
should ready your action in response to the enemy’s
movement. That way your attack will be triggered by
a portion of the enemy’s move, and you will inter-
rupt it and attack first. If you ready an action to be
triggered by an enemy attack, your readied action
will occur as a reaction to that attack, so you’ll attack
after the enemy.
Note that an enemy might use a power that lets
it move and then attack. If you readied an action to
attack in response to that enemy’s movement, your
readied action interrupts the movement, and you
can attack before the enemy does.

note, it even mentions you can interrupt the movement of a power that allows movement and attack as part of the same action!

so, for example, in the 1st example I gave you the enemy was charging you, you'd still get to attack before he attacked, since your readied action was "if an enemy moves adjacent to me"...

 

[Jhaelen]

These rules are horribly written. How do you determine which square they move through to interrupt their action to attack them. Can someone run down all of the possibilities on how these rules work. These rules could have been so simple, they are not. Ack.

I think it's really funny how you're asking "How the hell do readied actions work!" only to tell everyone who's explaining it to you that they're wrong

I don't think the rules are horribly written. I think you may be suffering from a mental blockade. Try to take a walk out into the fresh air and then reread the section in the PHB and the explanations in this thread. You may find that everything is starting to make sense.

 

[Blackbrrd]

There is a logical reason why readied actions aren't immidiate interrupts, but immidiate reactions.

The reason is that a melee guy is about to attack you. You have readied an attack that lets you shift one square after the attack. He no longer has a valid target and has just wasted his attack. It would in other words be wastly overpowered.

As it is now, you react to him moving close to you, do your readied attack and maybe shift a square. Now the attack can continue his move so he ends up adjacent to you and do his attack.

 

[KarinsDad]

I just want to end the argument over it. So please help out.

First, you have to actually compare what people post with the rules. They happen to be correct, so you should stop telling them that they are wrong.

With a few exceptions, actions are discrete events that can only be interrupted with an immediate interrupt. Movement can be interrupted with a readied action immediate reaction.

However, an attack can NOT be interrupted with a readied action immediate reaction. Since it is an immediate reaction, it occurs after the attack. Unlike movement which has a specific exception in the ready rules, attacks do not do this. You appear to want this to be the rule, but it is not.

Page 291:

Immediate Reaction: A readied action is an immediate reaction. It takes place after your enemy completes the action that triggers it.


If you readied an action to attack in response to that enemy's movement, your readied action interrupts the movement, and you can attack before the enemy does.

The main rule here is that it occurs after the enemy completes the trigger action. The exception rule is that it can interrupt movement if the triggering action was movement. The enemy can then continue moving after the readied action is resolved.

The movement rule is a specific exception to the standard rule that ready actions occur after the triggering action is completely finished.

Note the word "action". A move action is different than a standard than a free than a minor. Only a movement type move action can be interruped with a readied action, the rest cannot. Even a normal move action (which is not movement) cannot be interrupted because the rules state that the action has to be completely resolved.

So if you set the trigger to attack the creature when it lets go of your grabbed ally (a free action for the enemy), then after the free action "end a grab" action is over, the ready action would then occur before the creature could do its standard action attack.

If you set the trigger to attack the creature after it moves next to you, then it moves next to you, you attack, it then can either continue moving (which would provoke an opportunity attack) or it can stop moving and then do some other action like attacking.


And, I agree with Frank. The rule should be an immediate interrupt instead of an immediate reaction because immediate reaction is illogical (and requires the special movement rule exception).

 

[KarinsDad]

There is a logical reason why readied actions aren't immidiate interrupts, but immidiate reactions.

The reason is that a melee guy is about to attack you. You have readied an attack that lets you shift one square after the attack. He no longer has a valid target and has just wasted his attack. It would in other words be wastly overpowered.

As it is now, you react to him moving close to you, do your readied attack and maybe shift a square. Now the attack can continue his move so he ends up adjacent to you and do his attack.

The problem is that in order to handle this one special corner case (which btw is not that bad, both the PC and the NPC lost an action and this only occurs when the foe is medium sized or smaller), they prevent a plethora of things like "If he aims his bow at my friend, I shoot him" cases.

A simpler rule would have to make it an immediate interrupt and don't allow the action to be a shift. A teleport, sure. A shift, no.

What good is readying for something and then not be prepared enough to act on it until after the fact? The readying creature is taking the risk of the trigger not occuring and time being wasted, the reward for taking the risk should be his, not the other creature's.

Note: If it were an immediate interrupt, then the OP would not have posted an issue because the confusion for him probably would not exist.

 

[Blackbrrd]

"What good is readying for something and then not be prepared enough to act on it until after the fact? The readying creature is taking the risk of the trigger not occuring and time being wasted, the reward for taking the risk should be his, not the other creature's."

If ready actions are Immidiate Interrupts, you can have two medium sized creatures, one of them has an at-will power that lets him shift after doing an attack. This creature readies the attack. The other creatures attacks it, he attacks back before the attack resolves and the first monsters attack doesn't have a valid target and does nothing. The attacking creature can't react in any way to the ready action, since he can't take immidiate actions on anothers turn... It would be nearly impossible for the attacking creature to attack the readying creature.

To sum it up: ready actions as Immidiate Reactions makes sense mechanically, even with the exception that you can take and immidiate reaction after an enemy enters a square.