How to challenge PC with arcane eye & arcane sight

[Dark Dragon]

But "Magevision" is a form of sight. Unlike Detect Magic, which is projecting a 60-foot cone to "ping" things, Arcane Sight only targets you. It's modifying your vision to be able to see octarine (not literally, but analogously), and your Arcane Eye sees "exactly as you would see if you were there."

Shouldn't the wizzard then be able to see DEATH in person?

 

[MarkB]

Shouldn't the wizzard then be able to see DEATH in person?

It depends on what mood the DM's in that day.

 

[Jack Simth]

Well, as you get to see things as though you were there yourself, why, a Gaze attack would work. Especially the Fort save or die types - Gorgon, Basilisk, and so forth - as Wizards don't usually have very good fort saves.

Anything that prevents Scrying - a Mage's Private Sanctum, perhaps - will stop it fairly cold.

As has been mentioned, the Magic Aura spell will do the job of concealing anyone with magic items, and the technique doesn't do anything at all for mechanical traps.

False Vision (Sor/Wiz 5) will do some really fun stuff - fools all Divination(Scrying) effects, and Arcane Eye is Divination(Scrying). No save, even. This is especially fun if you put up the illusion of an area that will encourage them to use Teleport/Dimension Door to bypass an obstacle.

 

[backbeat]

Here's how I see it going down:
BBEG is a high level mage with Ninja/rogue henchman. Arcane Eyes see them waiting, Mage sees arcane eye. Party buffs and charges in. (Meanwhile mage casts passwall and sets a few delayed spell (Dispel Magic, Evards, Fireball are good choices). The party will charge in and find the room empty. After the buffs are down, the evil guys can circle in behind and attack.

The mage can cast dex denying spells, while the rest sneak attack/sudden strike.

Good times.

 

[moritheil]

It should be noted that a DM should not spend most of his or her time countering the player's abilities. That results in frustration, one-upmanship, and antagonistic play. That said, neither should one ability always result in victory.

Use golems, clockwork horrors, rogue eidolons, greater elementals, or other combat brutes that can take punishment and dish it out. (I originally was going to suggest the Tarrasque; that should give you an idea of the kind of encounter I mean.) The encounter will be painful for some of the party no matter whether or not they see it coming. The monsters would also not be inclined to prepare no matter what.

Use psychic poisons that damage anyone scrying into an area (BoVD.) 4d6 wis damage might make the wizard realize that this combination does not render him above reproach from those he spies upon.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

But "Magevision" is a form of sight. Unlike Detect Magic, which is projecting a 60-foot cone to "ping" things, Arcane Sight only targets you. It's modifying your vision to be able to see octarine (not literally, but analogously), and your Arcane Eye sees "exactly as you would see if you were there."

I think you may have confused Line of Sight with Line of Effect. Arcane Eye doesn't provide Line of Effect--you can't Detect Magic through it, as Detect Magic is still going from your head to the 60 feet in front of it--but it does provide Line of Sight, or (by definition) you wouldn't be seeing with it.

First: SRD Vision says nothing about 'MageVision'... you are extrapolating that idea from the text about the casters eyes glowing blue.

Second... you contradict yourself. If you can't Detect Magic through it... Arcane Eye text reads "The effect is similar to that of a detect magic spell...." and ..."allows you to see magical auras within 120 feet of you." ... or put into your method of phrasing "...going from your head to 120 feet away from it."

Essentially Arcane Sight is a Detect Magic that is a bit better, hence its place at 3rd level. I read the text of the spell as to not be compatable with Arcane Eye. If a player were to convince me otherwize, I would be willing to concede provided the conduit between the Arcane Eye and the Mage works both ways... taking "It sees exactly as you would see if you were there" to all the nasty possibilities that it can lead to.

But, moritheil has the right of it.. good GM's don't go around using the nerf-batting of excellent player tactics as thier primary plot design concept.

This is just another example of poor standardization between editors. The spells could be written much clearer.


=========
JMHO

 

[IanB]

Arcane eye is really not that hard to stop.

Solid barriers block its passage, but it can pass through a hole or space as small as 1 inch in diameter.

A well-made door will have less than an inch of space around it when closed. Sorry, arcane eye.

 

[Vargo]

Permanancy is highly susceptible to dispelling, especially as the character gets higher in level and their enemies also get higher in level.

From the D20SRD: "Spells cast on other creatures, objects, or locations (not on you) are vulnerable to dispel magic as normal."

 

[IanB]

From the D20SRD: "Spells cast on other creatures, objects, or locations (not on you) are vulnerable to dispel magic as normal."

That is modifying a statement earlier in the spell description, though:

You cast the desired spell and then follow it with the permanency spell. You cannot cast these spells on other creatures. This application of permanency can be dispelled only by a caster of higher level than you were when you cast the spell.

So self-only permanent spells can be dispelled; there is just an extra requirement of the caster being higher level that does not exist for the other applications of permanency.

 

[pawsplay]

Detection spells are ludicrously easy to fool with a handful of low level illusions.