How to describe Strider's combat on Weathertop

[Alaric_Prympax]

The hobbit's all are Nobles third/Rogue three, except Sam who's a streight up Fighter, maybe fifth.

I could basically agree with all you said except... wouldn't Sam have a couple of levels of Expert (Gardener)? Also that would give him a few more skill points since IIRC Expert has skill points = 6 + Int modifier. Then over the course of the adventure (or campaign) earn a few levels of fighter.

 

[Larry Fitz]

Brick outhouses

I think you may all be missing the real nature of fight's in D&D. It has always been my impression that hit points do not actually represent the flesh of people being attacked, but more their combat abilities and heartiness in battle. That's why it appeared that Aragorn had not physically hit his opponent, because he hadn't actually struck them. Character hit points more appropriately represent 'combat preparedness' not actual physicality. The alternative to this view is that you can have two different men, one a 1st level expert and the other a 20th level Fighter, they can be wearing identical armor and have identical stamina, and yet you will have to hit the fighter 15 times with your longsword in order to kill him and the expert only twice. This is also why a coup de grace is accompanied by a fortitude save, it is possible to wound any indefensible opponent so badly he dies. It is not necessary to do 115 hp of damage to him. When you administer the coup de grace you are not really doing double or triple the damage a sword can do to his flesh, you are ignoring the combat training that could have minimized the damage you were doing, and possibly damaging something vital.

Just my take on things....

 

[Sidran]

Howsa about a feat that lets him push the enemy back


Combatitive Prowess

By flailing about your weapons in an intimidating manner you are capable of driving of attackers

Prereq Intimidate 8 ranks, Two weapon fighting

Benefit: When in a surprise situation where you have the advantage you may attempt to drive off an opponent. This is done by flailing you weapons in a threatening manner. When attempting to drive an enemy off your character gets a +10 to his intimidation checks against monsters of low, or no Intelligence.
Against intelligent creatures he can cause a minor fear blast (DC 15 to save against the affect) that forces opponents within its ten foot radius to step back in a dazed state.

 

[Sidran]

Gandalf is a Twentieh Level Sorcerer at most....just the way magic in middle earth seems this way to me, it's basically just cast without components.


How do you figure, he is one of the Maiar, one of Ainur of a lesser degree than the Valar...so basically he is a celestial Asimar at least or a true Outsider Celestial I agree though, and its Wizard with sorcerer abilities.

If anything I would use a Human with a Celestial Template added on to give him the basics of his stuff and then use the Sorcerer Class but call it Wizard

Legolas: Fifteenth Level Fighter/ 5th Level Ranger

Again I feel you are a little off. I think that at least he is a 7th level Ranger if not a full 20th level Ranger. There is not much that shows him as a fighter in the movies, and a lot to say he is a ranger with a few prestige class levels in some form of Archery PrC as well

Aragorn: level 15 Ranger, Fifth Level Paladin.

I will agree with the 15th level ranger/ but Paladin? What are you smoking.. He is an strange form of Druid at the least probably 5-6th level. Paladin Sheesh Not to mention he is a Noble as well

Gimli: Pure Fighter, probably seventeenth level at most.
Agree cept most likely he has a few levels as A Dwarven Defender or some such PrC as well

The hobbit's all are Nobles third/Rogue three, except Sam who's a streight up Fighter, maybe fifth.

I disagree here to Nobles? Mary, and Pippen Nobles? Ok so ones a Took so what, Sam a fighter, I would say more like a Warrior 2nd/Expert 3rd/ 1 level Rogue ( the I wasn't droping no eves)

Mary, and Pippen both are possibly Warrior's 1 level/ Rogue 3-4th level
Frodo is the weakest of them all in my humble oppinion being a book worm of the sorts

I would say 2nd Level Warrior/ 2 Bard or Rogue or even a little bit of Monk in him he didnt seem to good with his sword

Boromir: Pure fighter 15

Perhaps though I think he probably has a PrC Class Son of Gondor which is similar to the Dwarven Defender

 

[Storm Raven]

I could basically agree with all you said except... wouldn't Sam have a couple of levels of Expert (Gardener)? Also that would give him a few more skill points since IIRC Expert has skill points = 6 + Int modifier. Then over the course of the adventure (or campaign) earn a few levels of fighter.

He doesn't need the skill points from being an Expert. I'd give him a level or two of Commoner, and then a few levels of Fighter by the end. Profession and Craft are class skillls for both the Commoner and Fighter class, and all he really needs is to max out his Profession (Gardner) and Profession (Herbalist) skills.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Devil's Advocate

OK, for all of you who think the LoTR characters should be upper-teens/epic levels --- justify that based on demonstrated acts in the books. Just because you *think* the character should be mega-levels, doesn't mean that the character has to be. What is the lowest level the character has to be to accomplish what is done in the books?

Legolas -- Probably has Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Far Shot, maybe rapid shot. -- 4th Level Fighter.

Gimli -- Hmm. Swings a battle axe well. Beheads orcs occasiionally (=CR 1/4 D&D goblins). Power attack, cleave, endurance. 3rd Level Fighter.

Gandalf -- So what if he's Maiar? He was sent back in human form. What spells can he cast? Hmmm -- daylight, dancing lights, knock, arcane lock, maybe a dispel magic -- 5th level wizard (or maybe slightly higher level sorcerer, since he never uses a spell book).

Aragorn -- Mmm. Know how to use a sword. Can identify herbs, and help cure the sick. 4th level Ranger, with skill ranks in Wilderness Lore and Heal.

Sauron -- has to be able to Forge Ring with ethereal jaunt capability, at the height of his power. Arguably the most powerful being in Middle Earth. 13th level Wizard.

The magic items I see as similarly low powered:

Sting: +1 keen shortsword
Glamdring: +2 orc-bane longsword
Anduril: +3 flaming longsword
The One Ring: Cursed Ring of Ethereal Jaunt. Bearer must make a will save once per decade or lose one point of Con. Reduction to 0 Con turns the bearer into a wraith under the control of the maker of the ring.

You can make everyone in Middle Earth uber-powerful, then nerf the rules system to explain why all the high-level D&D effects aren't present -- or you can scale everything back to match the effects that are demonstrated. I prefer the latter.

 

[Wolfspider]

Re: Devil's Advocate

OK, for all of you who think the LoTR characters should be upper-teens/epic levels --- justify that based on demonstrated acts in the books. Just because you *think* the character should be mega-levels, doesn't mean that the character has to be. What is the lowest level the character has to be to accomplish what is done in the books?

A convincing argument, well demonstrated through examples. It falls apart, however, when you take the events from the Silmarillion into consideration. Sauron is akin to a fallen angel, one of the most powerful beings in creation, most crafty among the Maiar. Many of the Elves in Middle Earth are thousands upon thousands of years old. Elrond may have just done some minor curing according to the D&D rules, but I hardly think he would be a 4th level cleric (to use your model).

Some of the Elves of the 1st age were able to stand up against Balrogs in single combat...and these creatures dwarf even the D&D Balor (which is modelled after Tolkien's demon of fire) in might. Could a 13th level D&D wizard or sorceror struggled for days in magical and physical combat with a Balor?

The Lord of the Rings may focus on the exploits of relatively low-powered beings, but when the whole history of Middle Earth is examined, you see that is it, in D&D terms, quite epic (level 20+) in power.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

It's all subjective anyway. Nobody can be right or wrong. Take a look at the site linked to in my sig for a variety of takes on the characters from the Lord of the Rings and Silmarillion, made by a variety of people. If any of you have a new take on them, stat 'em up and submit 'em (Wolfspider already knows about this; he's been part of the process).

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

It's all subjective anyway. Nobody can be right or wrong

That really sums it up.

Now while I agree with Wolfspider that the power levels go up if you include the whole of the Silmarillion, by the 3rd Age most of those beings have either gone into the west or declined in power. Certainly, Elrond's not a 4th level cleric -- maybe 9th.

There's nothing to say that just because you're immortal and have already lived 4500 years, you've gained a lot of levels. If there was, every elf in D&D would be an epic character -- they are extremely long-lived, though not immortal. The rules system has never really taken that into account.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Low-level LOTR

Just to contribute something meaningful, I posted my version of a low-level FotR in the Conversion thread, here:

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=308756#post308756

I raised levels slightly (Aragorn to 6th to qualify for the Leadership feat, Gandalf to 8th). I included some rough monsters and magic items for comparison (a take on the Balrog that doesn't require a Balor, for example).

Your feedback is welcome!