How to design a Greek hoplite?

[Gort]

I don't want to gimp him too much (-2 to attack rolls is pretty painful when your attack bonus is only 2 to begin with) for following his concept. What I've gone with is a feat that lets you use a longspear one-handed as an exotic weapon. It doesn't feel too powerful, his damage is only D8 after all, and spending a feat to get reach seems fine to me. Spears need a little love after all

Anyway, in 300 the Spartans were all full-defending when the charge hit so they wouldn't have got any AoOs

D&D doesn't really take this into account but ancient spears were notoriously prone to breaking in prolonged combat. Hoplites carried reserve weapons - short swords - as well. You know, if he needs additional flavor.

Funny you should say this, he's actually gone for a short sword as a backup weapon because he couldn't afford a longsword. I wouldn't be surprised if bronze-age swords were prone to breaking in prolonged combat as well, though.

 

[Henry]

I don't want to gimp him too much (-2 to attack rolls is pretty painful when your attack bonus is only 2 to begin with) for following his concept. What I've gone with is a feat that lets you use a longspear one-handed as an exotic weapon. It doesn't feel too powerful, his damage is only D8 after all, and spending a feat to get reach seems fine to me. Spears need a little love after all

Long as it's specific to the spear, sound perfectly reasonable to me. No unpenalized one-handed greatsword wielders for me, though!

As for the Bronze spear thing, One thought is this: On any roll of max damage he has to make a check (straight 10%, another attack roll, something like that); if it fails, the spear breaks. You'll have those battlefields littered with broken spears in no time!

 

[pawsplay]

A longspear as a one handed reach weapon? Uh, no. It doesn't make sense conceptually, and it doesn't match anything I can think of in the rules. You're talking about a guy who could place his order at a fast food place, then spear the guy making fries without getting any closer.

 

[Thikket]

A longspear as a one handed reach weapon? Uh, no. It doesn't make sense conceptually, and it doesn't match anything I can think of in the rules. You're talking about a guy who could place his order at a fast food place, then spear the guy making fries without getting any closer.

I humbly disagree on all accounts.

I believe a longspear used with one hand absolutely makes sense conceptually -- and historically -- given the length of spears the hoplites actually used. Going from my extremely scientific perusal of the 3.5e PHB weapon chart on page 115, a longspear looks to be a few feet taller than the wielder (I'm basing this off the assumption that the quarterstaff on the same page should go up to armpit-height). This seems to fit perfectly with the spears actually used by the ancient Greeks. Honestly, I would not even require an additional feat if a fighter asked to use a spear in this way, since it seems completely appropriate.

Furthermore -- it does match things in the rules, as blargney the second already pointed out. The trident is a one-handed weapon with 10' reach. EDIT: This is false. See below.

I don't believe an "uh, no" is in order for such a minor request like this one... The longspear is hardly game-breaking, nor do I believe this usage is hard to imagine.

Anyway, here's another vote to just use a trident and describe it however the player wants. If I removed two of the three prongs from a trident, I'd say it does the same damage and retains the same reach! In my view, players should certainly not be penalized (by the precious opportunity cost of feats, in this case) for taking a substandard choice that promotes the character rather than the mechanics behind him or her. That seems backwards: "I fail to optimize, and I'm weakened for it."



Edit: Shut me up and call me stupid! The trident is totally not a reach weapon; for some reason my mind decided to equate "10' range" (ie, thrown range increment) with reach. Silly mind.
On the other points addressed here, I have not yet been shown to be foolish... As far as I know (and I may be proved wrong once again!), the Greek soldier obviously benefitted from that very large shield while wielding that spear simultaneously, even in solo combat.

 

[Darklone]

TRIDENT IS NOT A REACH WEAPON.

Just thought I'd mention it.

HALBERD ISN'T A REACH WEAPON EITHER.

Someone had to say it.

Greeks used the real long spears with both hands. While wearing their shields.

 

[Storyteller01]

OGL ancients has a warrior class based on the greek and other fighting styles of that era (a mix of myth and historic accounts). This is for your standard soldier (slaves, recruited, common upbringing, etc). Your nobles use an adjusted fighter class, getting Officer rank at 1st level and Genral rank at 15th.

Note: all greek warriors, irrespective of the social background, are proficient with all martial weapons. Those warriors specifically from sparta also receives a +1 Con, -2 Cha, and a speed of 40 ft.

Warning: The system isn't as magic or ability score heavy as standard D&D. Man amde items are temporary, and permanent items are made by the gods. Example: Ares' spear: a +5 weapon with a 100 ft with no max range. If you see it, you can attempt to hit it. Powerful, but by no means your typical d20 godly weapon.

d12 hd

Proficient with simple weapons, as well as light and medium armors.

Skills: climb, craft, handle animal, jump, listen, ride, spot, survival, swim, use rope

Good BaB

Good fort and will saves

Weapon focus at first level: only for your cultures favored weapon (choose from the spear, javelin, sarissa, xiphos, or kopis for greek warriors)

Formation feats every 5th level (feats who's bonuses come into effect when three or more individuals with the same feat fight together).

Bonus fighter feat every 4th level.

Officer rank at 10th level (you get ten 3rd level warriors to command, NOT the npc type).

General rank at 20th level (same as Officer rank, but they are 5th level).


The system tends to use a complicated system of DR/DA for it's armor and shields (no AC, just what gets through DR), but warriors came with a secondary shield defense system you might like. Starting at +1 and increasing every third level after the first, the warrior gains a shield defense bonus. In effect, after an attack is made against you but before it resolves, you can make this check to have to shield take the hit instead. The total bonus is your SDB + your Wis + the shields bonus to this roll (+5 for a hoplite shield). If your roll is higher than the attack, the shield takes the hit. Anything that exceeded Damage Absorbtion went directly to the shield. Anything that exceeded the shields hp punched through, the remainder going to the character and destroying the shield. This is iteritive (at 16th level you get two at +6/+1).

In the OGL system a hoplite shield had 30 hp with a DA based on the attack type. You can adjust it as you wish, using hardness for damage absorbtion and what not.

Hope it helps.

 

[mvincent]

I can't find any weapons (exotic or otherwise) that are both one-handed and have reach.

The oriental gusari-kama from the DMG is both one-handed and has reach, but it's likely not what you were envisioning.

Is there any way round this?

The easiest options are to:
1) Use trident stats (no reach) and a heavy shield . Or
2) Use a Longspear (reach), a buckler, and improved buckler defense (similar to how sarissaphoroi pike phalanx soldiers wielded their weapons... with both hands), or
3) Use the gusari-kama stats, but call it a one-handed longspear. Or
4) Allow him reach if he's using a longspear built for a small character.

I think option #2 would be the most satisfactory.

 

[blargney the second]

I should have prefaced that I knew the trident didn't have reach. I mentioned it because it is a one-handed weapon with spear-like qualities and decent damage.

 

[Masquerade]

The oriental gusari-kama from the DMG is both one-handed and has reach, but it's likely not what you were envisioning.

That's kusari-gama.

 

[mvincent]

That's kusari-gama.

Yeah, I always seem to reverse those letters... likely because a kusari-gama is kama on a chain.