How to ensure a Beguiler's survivability?
Make friends with/thralls of large, beefy warrior types and keep them between you and harm.
Make friends with/thralls of large, beefy warrior types and keep them between you and harm.
How to ensure a Beguiler's survivability?
- Thread starter Aus_Snow
- Start date
That's when you realize how much of a joke the concept of a tank in 3e really is...
Or...buy a 5th of that fine Whiskey your DM's been talking about and give it to him..."just because."
Hmmm...nobody ever laughed at one of my tanks.
Hmmm...nobody ever laughed at one of my tanks.
akbearfoot
First Post
tanks are very useful in 3xe...smart critters do not expose themselves to AoOs unless its absolutely necessary. Especially not multiple AoOs when there are flanky sneak attacky things nearby too.
Its definitely true that casters should be a primary target, but once the power attacking barbarian or the thicket of blades crusader or the Knight is in your face then its time to reconsider tactics.
And since most casters have ways to evade attacks its probably not worth allowing 1 or more AoOs and giving up your full attack, and splitting yourself furthur from your own allies to take 1 shot at a spell caster....unless you're a monk, then you eat the magic user.
Its definitely true that casters should be a primary target, but once the power attacking barbarian or the thicket of blades crusader or the Knight is in your face then its time to reconsider tactics.
And since most casters have ways to evade attacks its probably not worth allowing 1 or more AoOs and giving up your full attack, and splitting yourself furthur from your own allies to take 1 shot at a spell caster....unless you're a monk, then you eat the magic user.
roguerouge
First Post
Ah yes, the amoral enchanter's best spell for every level: wall of meat.
Voadam
Legend
Be aware of what are immune to most of your attack spells: mindless things and things immune to mind-affecting effects: undead, constructs, vermin, plants, oozes.
But elementals are vulnerable.
You have mage armor as a spell and light armor without ASF. But even with your d6 HD you are poor in melee.
Figment illusions are useful when you can't do much else.
My elven beguiler used his bow and even his knife a bunch when going through Savage Tide (every adventure seemed to have a vermin or construct or undead).
You can take on the face and trapspringing party roles.
A fun class but a lot of foes nerf their abilities fiercely.
But elementals are vulnerable.
You have mage armor as a spell and light armor without ASF. But even with your d6 HD you are poor in melee.
Figment illusions are useful when you can't do much else.
My elven beguiler used his bow and even his knife a bunch when going through Savage Tide (every adventure seemed to have a vermin or construct or undead).
You can take on the face and trapspringing party roles.
A fun class but a lot of foes nerf their abilities fiercely.
Actually, I think they would be the best foes for a beguiler to face. Because they are mindless (no int score), they have no skills, and thus cannot hope to interact meaningfully with a beguiler's illusions. For example, golems are completely unable to make listen/spot checks, so a single invisibility spell defeats them.
Mind-affecting spells account for only a small proportion of a beguiler's arsenal. I think too much emphasis is placed on them, causing the beguiler to appear much more limited than he actually he.
Jack Simth
First Post
That's not quite right - they have no ranks, but they can still make checks (although they do auto-fail Int-based skills and Int checks). Mind you, that Stone Golem's Wis-11 means it can't make a spot or listen check of DC 21 or higher, but they can potentially make anything below that.
Voadam
Legend
Actually, I think they would be the best foes for a beguiler to face. Because they are mindless (no int score), they have no skills, and thus cannot hope to interact meaningfully with a beguiler's illusions. For example, golems are completely unable to make listen/spot checks, so a single invisibility spell defeats them.
Mind-affecting spells account for only a small proportion of a beguiler's arsenal. I think too much emphasis is placed on them, causing the beguiler to appear much more limited than he actually he.
Jack is right, mindless can see and hear, just not have skill ranks to apply to a spot or listen skill check. But even so, succesful invisibility does not defeat a foe. A single invisibility spell is only going to hide one member of the party from a golem and only until they make one attack.
A beguiler would have to work really hard and creatively to defeat a golem with an illusion and it would depend upon the circumstances and the instructions the golem is working off of. Something like luring the golem to chase an illusory intruder off an impossibly high cliff.
Jack Simth
First Post
If you're past it, with the entire party, it's defeated. You don't generally really need to kill it - and at 6th, a Beguiler has quite a few second level spell slots to play with... or can just cast one Invisibility Sphere, and walk past it with the entire party.
Edit:
Oh, better - Glitterdust. No SR blindness, and Constructs get very poor Will saves. Undead tend to have decent will saves, though.
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