How to Explain Evasion?

[Piratecat]

One thing I do is to require the person who makes their save to physically move their character/mini to the edge of the effect area. It is a free move and draws no attacks of opportunity since everyone thereabouts is trying to avoid the spell also. This causes some problems, sometimes. I roll a d8 for the random direction of movement.

That isn't a house rule I'm crazy about; way too many logistical problems. What do you do with a firestorm covering hundreds of feet?

I've seen people try to light ovens where the gas was already on - BOOM! They were enveloped in a rolling ball of fire, but came out uninjured (if a bit singed.) I figure that evasion is something similar.

 

[Mark Causey]

I think about things like this in the following manner:

HP damage in my games represents strikes that hit for damage, not just being hit. I tend to imagine many more strikes in a battle occurring than there are attack rolls or damage rolls for. One accumulates bruises, scars, burns, and so on; but the real damage occurs when HP is lost.

So, for this kind of situation, the rogue has twisted, turned, etc. and has avoided 'real damage'. Take a look at the rogue in the PHB (p. 85), I'd say she'd look like that after Evading a fireball, and maybe a little worse.

Does that help?

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Can I rephrase? Who says a Fireball completely fills each 5ft-square of its area of effect?

This is the simple, oft overlooked explanation.

The truth is characters being "completely missed" by Fireballs is not partcularly rare. Throw a 5 dice Fireball at a 20th level raging Barbarian and you will have no observable damage -- he is nimbly sidesteps every time.

It is just happens that 3rd level Rogues are approximately as good as 20th level Barbarians when it dodging Fireballs. The Evasion feat is just a mechanical means of representing this level of skill.

 

[Li Shenron]

That isn't a house rule I'm crazy about; way too many logistical problems. What do you do with a firestorm covering hundreds of feet?

I very much agree with you... it's something I've noticed several DMs to be fond of, but it opens up for unexpected situations (e.g. using an area spell to "push" targets towards a more deadly hazard, such as a pit) and arguments at the table (players NOT wanting to be pushed, then DM negating the ST at all for them...).

I've seen people try to light ovens where the gas was already on - BOOM! They were enveloped in a rolling ball of fire, but came out uninjured (if a bit singed.) I figure that evasion is something similar.

You have... SEEN them??? OMG!

 

[Burrito Al Pastor]

Evasion is one of those things that only works on a basic level, but breaks as the party level increases. I think the best breaking of it I've ever heard was when a friend wanted to drop Darren's Instant Fortresses from orbit as a siege weapon in an early-epic campaign. This raised an interesting question: theoretically, a fortress dropping on your head should allow a reflex save, since most any similar event would prompt one; however, if you're in the center, and a large, flat surface is falling on your head, there is no way you can escape damage without moving out from under it. This is not possible without moving to the edge of the effect, as a free action, which under the circumstances is several hundred feet away. The same effect can be applied to any number of other examples, in which it is not physically possible to halve or eliminate the damage taken from some sort of event which allows a reflex save. It's one of the logical fallicies inherent in the d20 System, and it's one of the impossible things you have to ignore to keep realism from taking all the fun out of the game.

 

[Li Shenron]

You don't need an entire Instant Fortress to raise the question I think there are collapsing walls traps or spells which give a reflex save and may have a suggestion about it.

 

[TheEvil]

Two theories

Theory #1:

The Space-Time Contimuum(TM) is full of anomolies. They come in all shapes, sizes and types and they are everywhere. Rogues and some other classes develope a sixth sense which allows them to detect small, localized distortions in the Space-Time Continuum (TM). They simply step behind them when they need to avoid large area effects.

Theory #2:

Much like the 'push aside with cloak' theory Zephalon postulated, rogues are simply better at using all available cover of any kind. MUCH better. Even if they happen to be holding that cover. The incident which brought this to mind was a story where the rogue had a sword which had a 1 in 20 chance of setting off a fireball centered on the sword when it hit something. Since the rogue had such a high reflex save, he didn't worry about it. I joked that he must have been dodging behind the hilt of the sword when the fireballs when off.

 

[Storyteller01]

Dodging arrows isn't a good analogy; arrows can be dodged. I'm talking about something that envelops you and covers such a large area that there isn't somewhere to dodge to.

I guess there is no good answer.

Ole' David Copperfield had hisself surrounded by a tornado of fire and survived.

Agreed, having an 'eye in the storm' helped, but he claimed to have tried to take a breath while in said tornado. That nearly killed him (20,000 degrees in the lungs will do that)...

Maybe it's the same mental discipline. Who knows...

 

[Turhan]

Good morning,

Piratecat's criticism of one of my options for evading damage is valid. I should have mentioned that when I want a Player to move a mini, I only apply that particular rule to spells with small areas of effect- no more than 20-30 feet in radius, and then not all the time. It has to fit the story telling part of the scene they are in. Sometimes it has to do with PC's who are in "motion" when the spell goes off. It is not always easy to handle, and I try not to push the issue if the players don't want to accept my suggestion. Also, I never roll the random direction myself- the player does that, and in some cases I let the player choose the direction if there is some piece of cover nearby he wants to employ as the reason he took no damage.

For spells like firestorm and large spells, saving throws are handled without movements. The bottom line is: Let them have fun, and try to apply the rules with some uniformity; the rules allow them to stand still and make a save, so if that's what they want, so be it. The DM can always describe the spell effect and the save result in a fitting fashion.

By the way, for all the other posters here, I've enjoyed your take on stuff. Good work, and thanks for making me think about some of my stuff again.

 

[Storyteller01]

Jump in the air. Everyone knows that explosions can't harm you if you're airborne when they go off.

SAY WHAT!?