How to Fix a Slavery situation without murder? (Solved!)

[Doctor Shaft]

If you drug them though, the conflict ends there. Killing them while they are staggered won't bring any "good" to anyone. The scene will be left a conflicted, muddled mess.

Slaves go free.

People go to examine slavers... find out they were poisoned then killed. No explanation or clear intent to the murders. The slavers are not given a chance to fight back... and the authorities are now convinced that this travelling band of warriors have basically stolen slaves from rich slavers by killing them.

Party goes on to other mission, other slavers in other parts of this country are also still buying slaves (more slaves for them I guess), and your party has a huge stain on their hands.

I really appreciated Morrow's post on responsibility and idealism. Yes, the ideal says that these men should be thwarted right away, left to bleed out, while the slaves get their poetic justice and leave. However, there is always a responsibility. Sometimes, you just have to feel that death isn't the way to go in certain situations, or certain times.

Maybe the slavers will die in a future campaign, if the party ever comes back to free the land when they are more epic heroes (and still alive too, of course ). Maybe they'll die when they attempt to defend their keep despite the poison. But killing them all sometimes just isn't the solution.

You kill terrorists right away because the art of terrorism is to kill and kills some more without ceasing. Slavers buy slaves without ceasing as well, and people suffer... but there is still the lame opportunity, that sad window in which something can be done, or slaves can still live out their lives (although one has to question whether they should want to go through with it, etc.).

And, to ambiguously touch on religious parable, and without getting too specific... men who have been absolute murderers and lusty adulterers (at the same time), have become kings and holy men, revered and read. Now, whether you agree that it should have been that way is another debate not worth discussing in this thread (I'm just making an example, battling over said won't encourange any good talks). But that's just an example. The man, in an idealistic world, should have been taken outside, gutted then quartered on the spot. And yet, he became the holy leader.

The slavers don't deserve necessarily to become kings (believe me, Im not saying they should become leaders), but sometimes sparing the enemy and slipping his riches from under him is the best thing you can do in a certain situation. PC's that needlessly struggle or kill just so that John the Slaver can't have slaves (meanwhile his thirty cousins you didn't meet are actively still doing it), may be going through unnecessary troubles. It's worth considering, given alignment, and ethical issues.

My advice, as an outsider reading the story, would be that the PC's don't do anything "extra", such as killing because "it would satisfy your moral juices". I'm not saying that stopping slavers from getting slaves is worth nothing or bad... but it's worth considering over.

Poison-only, in this situation, sounds like the way to go. If you can't defeat your enemy cleanly and end the conflict with your sword right away...then the sword isn't the way to go... for now.

 

[MerakSpielman]

Of course, the ironic thing to do would be press the slavers into slavery. Is that less evil than murder? Is there a particular brand or tattoo that slaves commonly wear? Would people believe a slave if they said they weren't really a slave?

 

[Kemrain]

Of course, the ironic thing to do would be press the slavers into slavery. Is that less evil than murder? Is there a particular brand or tattoo that slaves commonly wear? Would people believe a slave if they said they weren't really a slave?

Melissa feels that slavery is always more evil than murder, even murder of an innocent. Then again, Melissa has strong, often irrational beliefs. There are slave marks, but we don't know the extent of what they mean. Belle has one on the back of her neck that is easily covered by clothing. It might be more like branding cows, so you know which ones belong to which rancher.
Enslaving the slavers is a solution that none of the people involved would approve of. Melissa and her Angel because it's too evil, and Belle because it's not evil enough. We really need to work on that girl's morals. Even the demon is scared of what she might do. Yeesh.

- Kemrain the Regretful that Belle is Armed.

 

[Kemrain]

Poison-only, in this situation, sounds like the way to go. If you can't defeat your enemy cleanly and end the conflict with your sword right away...then the sword isn't the way to go... for now.

We just don't know if poisoning will be an option. We also can't assure that everyone will be poisoned. Anyone who isn't will probably be suspicious and alert. If we can get everyone poisoned, and can basically walk around like we own the place, if I let Belle out of my sight for a second, she'll probably end up doing some things worse than murder to those who hurt her most. That given, it is a good idea, and it could keep us from having to kill anyone, if it works out perfectly.

Of course, if it works out perfectly, and everyone there is incapacitated, we don't need to solve the situation with the sword.


...We could use pillows.

- Kemrain the Convinced Belle will Kill Either Way.

 

[MerakSpielman]

You know, it's honestly starting to seem like Belle is the real problem here.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Of course, Wisdom damage poison is very, very similar to just being very, very drunk - catatonic drunk.

If you go with the "Barrel o' Wine" bluff from above, warn the slavers - repeatedly - that it's got a hefty kick. Warn them that only real men should drink it, as it hits ya harder than [insert appropriate stereotypical fantasy beverage here].

In DragonLance, you'd talk about pure-malt dwarven spirits (you know, the kind made from mushrooms). In the Forgotten Realms, you'd say something about Calishite firewine, or one of the various brandies. You get the idea.

Personally, I'm still all for making an example of them, but the poisoned wine sounds really, really good, too.

 

[Kemrain]

You know, it's honestly starting to seem like Belle is the real problem here.

She is a problem, but one that needs to be dealt with slowly, over time. Melissa sees an awful lot of herself in Belle, and she isn't willing to let the girl make the same mistakes she has. She's more willing to make a project out of Belle than out of slavery, at the moment.

So far the plan seems to be recon, sneak in, poison a drinking supply (preferrably alcohol over water, less likley the slaves will have any), sneak out, do more recon, come in later, after the poison has worked, slit throats, kill anyone still able, free slaves, collect supplies, loot, bring bodies inside the farmhouse, burn the place to the ground, flee into the night towards Grensha with he slaves, wagons, food and water.
If there are no survivors, we don't have to worry as much about being tracked, and could escape blame all together.
Hopefully we'll game on friday night, and we can put this whole mess behind us. I'll certanly share the bodycount.

- Kemrain the Assassin Wannabe.

 

[kigmatzomat]

Assuming you pull this off you might want to start the rumor that Diamondback's men succeeded. No one's likely to know they didn't after all. It'll create a dead-end trail so you'll have less pursuit. Diamondback isn't likely to waste resources figuring out who was really responsible since it achieves the general purpose of "pay up or else" and there's the small chance his men will take responsibility for it.

 

[Kemrain]

Assuming you pull this off you might want to start the rumor that Diamondback's men succeeded. No one's likely to know they didn't after all. It'll create a dead-end trail so you'll have less pursuit. Diamondback isn't likely to waste resources figuring out who was really responsible since it achieves the general purpose of "pay up or else" and there's the small chance his men will take responsibility for it.

This is a good idea, especially since, if Diamondback's men lost, I doubt he'd want that info becoming public... Maybe I can go see him later on and let him know what happened, and why the slavers all had to die. Who knows, I might be able to use that to improve relations with the Crimelord... Good thought!

- Kemrain the [Evil].

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

I can't necessarily comment on much of this last discussion, but for the following:

First, and this is largely irrelevant, it seems to me that selling people into slavery is while still horrible enough to warrant extreme measures is more merciful then killing them. This seems to me to be largely manifestly true given A.) that the very scenario you are plotting has some liklihood of happening and freeing them B.) time as a slave after holding slaves is unlikely to make them long to hold slaves again.

Second, if you take all their stuff they are already automatically in a position where they can't buy slaves again. Unless I am sorely mistaken this does not sound like a world or group of people with access to insurance. They are already in trouble with the important local crime syndicates, their profession has a heavy tax, they are likely not too heavily capitalized and you're going to be taking most of their capital anyway, so once you pull this off, if you pull this off, they will no longer be capable of holding slaves. They might still end up as part of the slave holder economy but their particular nasty power as a group will be broken.

As a result, considering mass murder as the best preventative means seems silly to me when your primary goal is massive robbery or burglary which will achieve the same end. Bloodshed may be inevitable to achieve your end, but by no means is it necessary.

Third, while there are a number of strategems you could go with that seem just as likely to me as the extremely risky strategem of murdering them all in their sleep, How easy is that going to be for you guys, c'mon?, the bottom line seems to me that you are working on too short a time table.

You need at least a week to a month of work to pull this off right. Convince Belle to be patient and begin working on it right away, but take your time with this. It's not worth risking the lives of your characters and doing something you know you're morally shaky about when you could be slow, careful, ethically satisfied, and cooler simply by preparing your opportunity.

These forty guys aren't going to stick around forever. Role-play out a week of stalking them, aiding attacks from local robbers, watching their numbers dwindle, making their numbers dwindle, intimidating them and then setting up your ambush so that you can actually get their stuff and get out. Not too mention that without careful preparation even handling these slaves and convincing them that you're not a threat when you're covered in blood and have just made them wanted criminals is going to be nigh impossible in the eyes of most creative and tough but fair DMs and the NPC slaves they are playing.

I you're gonna go gritty then you gotta go professional, and that means setting up the deal.

Fourth, this is by far one of the awesomest set-ups for a session I've heard of, I wish you luck. I think it will be awesome whichever way you go, I just hope you don't have regrets about working to have found a way to pull it off better.