How to get to 50th level?

[Quasqueton]

What is the highest level that characters can gain in D&D?

There are plenty of challenges for characters of 20-25th level. There are some challenges for characters up to 30th level. There are some rare challenges over 30th level.

Say the PCs decided, "Let's hunt monsters till nothing is left." At what level would the PCs sort of run out of challenges? I mean, even if the PCs started working their way around the Great Wheel cosmology, at some point there would be no more challenges worth xp to them.

What got me into thinking on this was a comment I read about 50th-level characters. It made me wonder just how does a character *get* to 50th level.

Also address the question for your own campaign -- what is the highest probable level for PCs adventuring in your world? At what level would the PCs effectively be the most powerful creatures in your campaign?

Quasqueton

 

[DragonLancer]

Thats when they start running into Orcs and Trolls and <Insert monster> with Epic level classes.

 

[Nightfall]

Kill a few titans, that will get you up to 50th level.

 

[Crothian]

There are fewer monsters at such high levels, but it really depends on the DM to decide if his world and sosmology supports creatures that are that tough.

 

[VorpalBunny]

What is the highest level that characters can gain in D&D?

There are plenty of challenges for characters of 20-25th level. There are some challenges for characters up to 30th level. There are some rare challenges over 30th level.

Say the PCs decided, "Let's hunt monsters till nothing is left." At what level would the PCs sort of run out of challenges? I mean, even if the PCs started working their way around the Great Wheel cosmology, at some point there would be no more challenges worth xp to them.

What got me into thinking on this was a comment I read about 50th-level characters. It made me wonder just how does a character *get* to 50th level.

Also address the question for your own campaign -- what is the highest probable level for PCs adventuring in your world? At what level would the PCs effectively be the most powerful creatures in your campaign?

Quasqueton

For me it's not so much "at what level would there be nothing left", but at what level does verisimilitude break down enough that the characters are not plausible even for a fantasy world. Additionally, as a DM, the challenges of running a adventure for a froup of 50th-level guys would far outweigh the fun. There's only so many times you can save the world/universe/multiverse before it becomes redundant.

The highest I'd run PCs in a campaign I was running would be 22nd - 25th level.

 

[Trainz]

What is the highest level that characters can gain in D&D?

My previous solo campaign got my friend's PC up to 57 (started at 13).

There are plenty of challenges for characters of 20-25th level. There are some challenges for characters up to 30th level. There are some rare challenges over 30th level.

Indeed.

To be able to make games above 30, a DM must be very comfortable with the Hit Dice advancement rules for monsters. A good 80 % of the critters I threw at the party were either advanced beasts, monsters with character levels, or beasts with the Paragon template.

Slap 20 fighter levels on a fire giant and enjoy the show.

Say the PCs decided, "Let's hunt monsters till nothing is left." At what level would the PCs sort of run out of challenges? I mean, even if the PCs started working their way around the Great Wheel cosmology, at some point there would be no more challenges worth xp to them.

Never.

You're talking about an infinity of planes, thus nothing is ever "all done".

What got me into thinking on this was a comment I read about 50th-level characters. It made me wonder just how does a character *get* to 50th level.

Critter CR's are less an indicator of lethality at that level of play than lower levels.

Let's say you have a level 40 party. A given CR 46 critter might be a cakewalk for them, but a given CR 28 beast might wipe the floor with them.

Thus, XP can come in bursts. If anything, I found that PC's above level 20 level-up FASTER than at lower levels.

Also address the question for your own campaign -- what is the highest probable level for PCs adventuring in your world? At what level would the PCs effectively be the most powerful creatures in your campaign?

Never.

There's always a bigger fish.

 

[Creamsteak]

I doubt I'd run a game over 20th level for a normal group. For a solo PC, I'd set the max at 30th.

A solo PC of epic proportions facing down some ultimate evil (or just trying to conquer the setting) is something I could run, but I think I'd get bogged down too much in the mechanics for any more than 1 character to contend with.

20th level is a good stabling ground, in my opinion, when a party becomes pretty much the "Dragon Slayer" and "Demon Lord's Scheme Ending" heroes of legend, and it's time to go back to that era of low level challenges. Of course, there would need to be a handful of encounters way above their level (Tarrasques, Great Red Wyrms, and Liches) before retirement... but only a few before I just cut the game.



Now, as far as the question of "When does the setting run out of things to kill?" I'm not going to arbitrate that there are an infinite number of creatures. I would bring out some of the most horrible and henously evil things imaginable, but let's just hypothosize they killed that. Then they'd have one big empty space to run around in circles (or nuke in some way), unless they wanted to try and "leave" that would be the end of all things. I like to believe that my bad guys really could destroy the entire gaming universe, not that there will always be something else. Of course, my cosmology could come into play. I use a cosmology where there are alternate realities, higher planes and lower planes that have never been seen, and other such stuff. I also have an "outer rim" cosmology where creatures like Azathoth and Oblivion exist, and even if the PCs were at an infinitely high level... you can't compete with the ability to alter reality and annihilate existence in 0 time.

 

[Talmun]

As has been stated, after about level 25; HD advancement, templates, monsters from the epic book and combinations thereof become a DM's best friends. I found that if I was willing to put in the extra effort needed, epic sessions were just as fun and challenging for all involved as lower level games.

The Epic game I ran concluded at about 30th level with the PCs ascendance to DivR 1. I don't know if I would run a group of characters up to 50th, not because I believe that it's silly or over-powered (those being entirely relative), but because after 30 levels of epic play (from 21st to 50th), it would get a little old.

 

[kitsune9]

What is the highest level that characters can gain in D&D?

There are plenty of challenges for characters of 20-25th level. There are some challenges for characters up to 30th level. There are some rare challenges over 30th level.

Say the PCs decided, "Let's hunt monsters till nothing is left." At what level would the PCs sort of run out of challenges? I mean, even if the PCs started working their way around the Great Wheel cosmology, at some point there would be no more challenges worth xp to them.

What got me into thinking on this was a comment I read about 50th-level characters. It made me wonder just how does a character *get* to 50th level.

Also address the question for your own campaign -- what is the highest probable level for PCs adventuring in your world? At what level would the PCs effectively be the most powerful creatures in your campaign?

Quasqueton

There are a couple of ways to provide challenges for characters up to 50th level:

1. Rely on the advancement rules for monsters. Monsters have their powers increase along with their HD through advancing their HD instead of giving them class levels. If you have a demon that is a CR 25 (an Infernal) and you want to increase to a CR 29, it's better to give it eight extra HD than four levels of fighter CR-wise, because the Infernal will have more hp, increased BAB, etc.

2. Increase the threshold of EL challenges. In my campaign, at the low levels, the highest EL challenge I will throw at the party is three levels higher than the average party level (APL). In mid-levels, that is increased to four levels, and at high levels it's increased to five or six levels. At epic levels, the EL can be six levels and as they progressed up to eight or higher. Reason being is that if you're the type of DM who runs the standard campaign for access of magic items (not a low-magic campaign), then PC's will have access to greater power and remain challenged with higher EL's. On top of that, they will progress somewhat faster and will reach 50th level sooner. Don't do this if you run a low-magic campaign.

The caveat of all this and with epic campaigns in general is time for preparation. For 1st-20th levels, the DM can find the monster of any CR to fit the campaign and run it straight from the book or print it out from the SRD or use a generator for encounters. Unfortunately, for epic campaign, there are "gaps" in the encounter ranges and it takes a lot of time to create an NPC or advance a monster correctly to provide a lot of variety typical of non-epic game encounters. Unless there are some good programs that are bug-free that allow you generate monsters and advance them, it just takes a lot of time. I ended the campaign at 24th level when it took me 2 hours to write up an NPC wizard and monsters when my players went through that encounter in 30 minutes.

 

[kitsune9]

My previous solo campaign got my friend's PC up to 57 (started at 13).


Indeed.

To be able to make games above 30, a DM must be very comfortable with the Hit Dice advancement rules for monsters. A good 80 % of the critters I threw at the party were either advanced beasts, monsters with character levels, or beasts with the Paragon template.

Slap 20 fighter levels on a fire giant and enjoy the show.


Never.

You're talking about an infinity of planes, thus nothing is ever "all done".


Critter CR's are less an indicator of lethality at that level of play than lower levels.

Let's say you have a level 40 party. A given CR 46 critter might be a cakewalk for them, but a given CR 28 beast might wipe the floor with them.

Thus, XP can come in bursts. If anything, I found that PC's above level 20 level-up FASTER than at lower levels.


Never.

There's always a bigger fish.

Well said.