D&D 5E How to keep "recall lore" checks from ruining monster mystique?

Fauchard1520 · Feb 12, 2021

I'm having trouble finding the right balance with "recall lore" checks for monster identification. I'm talking those Arcana, Nature, and Religion checks made to identify critters. It seems like there's a narrow middle ground between "give them the stat block" and "mechanically useless flavor text." I don't want to ruin the mystique of my monsters by explaining exactly what they are and what they do, but by the same token high-INT characters deserve some kind of reward for their skill expertise.

I therefore turn to the boards for guidance. When it comes to recalling monster lore, what kinds of info do you give to your players? How much is "too much?"

(Comic for illustrative purposes.)

Musing Mage · Feb 12, 2021

Take the 'mechanical' realities of the monsters and dress them up with flavour. So you're giving them information without revealing a statblock or abilities.

'There was once a tale of a woman by the sea... the fishermen always said to stay away, and plug your ears because she sang a song so beautiful that even the staunchest man would lose his mind with desire to possess her, and never be heard from again...'

Or something to that effect. Colour the real information, but don't be afraid to throw in some misleading info as well. The character is recalling lore, and lore can always vary.

Justice and Rule · Feb 12, 2021

Fauchard1520 said:
I'm having trouble finding the right balance with "recall lore" checks for monster identification. I'm talking those Arcana, Nature, and Religion checks made to identify critters. It seems like there's a narrow middle ground between "give them the stat block" and "mechanically useless flavor text." I don't want to ruin the mystique of my monsters by explaining exactly what they are and what they do, but by the same token high-INT characters deserve some kind of reward for their skill expertise.

I therefore turn to the boards for guidance. When it comes to recalling monster lore, what kinds of info do you give to your players? How much is "too much?"

(Comic for illustrative purposes.)

Ask the players what they want to learn: a weakness ("Trolls are not intelligent creatures, though they have a low sense of cunning), a strength ("What a troll lacks in intelligence it makes up for with its nose, which it uses to hunt"), an attack ("A troll's claws can cleave a man like a greatsword"), and comparative stats ("A troll is certainly tough, maybe tougher than an ogre but close to a minotaur. What makes them so hard to take down is that regeneration"). Try to avoid direct stats and rely on stuff they may have already encountered as comparisons. Tactics and habits they might use are also good ("A Manticore prefers to stay in the air, using its spikes to strafe unlucky opponents caught in its sights") as well as hinting at things like morale ("Manticores are bullies, and if they put themselves at too much risk they are more likely to fly off and seek easier prey").

iserith · Feb 12, 2021

Generally I just ask the players what one thing they are trying to recall, specifically, about a monster (and the basis for which they might have encountered this knowledge in the past), and if they succeed (roll or not), I give them what they want, plus one other thing of my choosing that is of interest. If they fail (roll or not), I only give them one thing of my choosing that is of interest.

More specifically, in my current swamp hexcrawl game which includes a lot of unique monsters and rules for harvesting their parts, it matters if you can see the monster or not. If you try to recall lore about a monster without seeing it, then if we're rolling, it's an Intelligence (History) check. If you try to recall lore about a monster while seeing it, then if we're rolling, it's Intelligence (Arcana, Investigation, Nature, or Religion). On a success, the PC identifies the monster, its common instinct or agenda, and its valuable parts (if any). If they exceed the DC by 5 or more, they also recall the monster's resistances, vulnerabilities, and what it can do in general terms. On a failed check, they can recall the monster's common instinct or agenda or its valuable parts, but nothing else. If they fail the check by 5 or more and can see the monster, they are frightened until the end of their next turn.

Asisreo · Feb 12, 2021

Fauchard1520 said:
I'm having trouble finding the right balance with "recall lore" checks for monster identification. I'm talking those Arcana, Nature, and Religion checks made to identify critters. It seems like there's a narrow middle ground between "give them the stat block" and "mechanically useless flavor text." I don't want to ruin the mystique of my monsters by explaining exactly what they are and what they do, but by the same token high-INT characters deserve some kind of reward for their skill expertise.

I therefore turn to the boards for guidance. When it comes to recalling monster lore, what kinds of info do you give to your players? How much is "too much?"

(Comic for illustrative purposes.)

In my games, the players get what they ask for but only if its actually feasible they have this information.

If trolls have been researched vigorously, then a wizard may recall their lore from their studies some time ago. They'll know the Regeneration with fire and acid weakness. They'll know the Darkvision. They'll know their infamous hardiness and strength as well as their lack of intelligence and charm.

If they're fighting a Guardian Naga which is a reclusive once-in-a-lifetime creature, their lore will only go so far.

But I do let them try to intuit what they can about a monster physically. Mostly their physical stats (Str, Dex, Con), any features that are visibly apparent (Fire Form of Fire Elemental), logical resistances (poison immunity for Fiends) and features which can be guessed based off of context (lives in darkness means some form of special sight).

I NEVER give them anything resembling the stat block. They want to know HP and AC? They can keep track. But I'm not giving them extraneous knowledge.

LordEntrails · Feb 12, 2021

A stat block is too much.

If you are not up for flavoring the stats, then just give them some of the info, not all, depending upon how well they role AND the questions they ask AND character background/relevance.

JoJo grew up in a fisherfolk family; therefore they are going to know lots of info about sahuaghin and sea elves, but not very much about storm giants and purple worms.

They are strong, they are dumb, they are ferocious fighting with their tridents. Some of them master divine spell craft...

Benjamin Olson · Feb 12, 2021

I usually give them basic lore and 1-3 seemingly pertinent mechanical facts about immunities, resistances, vulnerabilities, and special abilities.

Occasionally when they have gotten a nat20 or an overall result in the high 20s and there's really nothing that strikes me as interesting I've just given them the stat-block. I wouldn't do it for a major set piece encounter, but in a random encounter with owlbears or something else that's just a big sack of hit points lacking non-obvious strengths and weaknesses it seems fair for a really high check to just mean "you were the kid who was totally obsessed with owlbears when you were 7. You know all the random facts about them.".

Shiroiken · Feb 12, 2021

I use a multi-DC check to determine what they learn, based on the rarity of the monster. The base DC just gives the name and a general description (nothing useful in combat), with each increase of 5 adding something helpful to know (a trait, resistance, vulnerability, etc.). All of it is coached with in-world language, such as "trolls fear fire." Makes them useful without overpowering.