D&D 3E/3.5 How to make a 3.5 monk with western flavor?

[Dandu]

Probably best as an NPC class, unless you give it a means of contributing to combat through means other than beating things up.

 

[sverigesson]

This is why (and only one of the reasons, I assure you) I love Eberron. The god's don't interact with the mortals in the setting, and clerics don't even have to have the same alignment as their deities. I agree that in the standard D&D setting, its true that there is a pretty strong correspondence between a god's will and his clerics' beliefs, but I also agree that that is a little bit of a Christian-centric cosmology.

Also, what about clerics who don't worship a deity, but rather simply gain powers through conviction in universal forces or somesuch? (Can't remember exactly how the PHB phrases it offhand)

 

[El Mahdi]

I realise this is necroing a month dead thread, but somehow I missed this previously. I think it's an awesome thread topic, and one I've addressed in my own campaign (a historical campaign based around the English Anarchy of 1135 to 1154).

First, I want to put to bed some misconceptions:

Unlike D&D, Monks, Friars, Priests, Clerics (etc.) did not usually have a prohibition against using swords or edged weapons. The idea in D&D that Priests, Clerics, and Monks can't draw blood, and therefore only use bludgeoning weapons is completely against actual history. The drawing blood part was at various times a prohibition for Priests, but that didn't mean it was okay to use clubs and maces either. In D&D, it was a purely gamist concept to differentiate Warrior type characters from Priest type characters. The main reasons for a real world rarity of Priests and Monks with swords is due to the cost of the weapons and the likely lack of training in how to use one. And anyone who thinks that a staff, club, or mace won't draw blood...then I've got some good swamp land down here I can sell you.

Also, swords in Europe were not restricted to Nobles and Knights only. If you could afford one and knew how to use it, then you're good to go. Wearing one in a town is another matter entirely, and most likely would have been restricted to Nobles and Knights (and Guards, etc.). But travellers could carry damn near anything they wanted on the road - the roads were dangerous places and everyone, whether peasant or Noble, had every right to defend themselves by any means necessary.

Many Clerics, Priests, and Monks were from noble families, usually youngest sons with little or no chance of an inheritance. A Monk with a Noble upbringing would have likely been rarer than a Priest with a Noble heritage, but they still existed. A Noble who entered the Priesthood would more than likely know how to use a sword, and have the money to buy one. In most cases, they would still have a decent amount of money from their family (vows not withstanding).

As to Friar Tuck, the stories equally portray him one of two ways (though they are not mutually exclusive). There's the overweight, slightly gluttoness, and fun loving Friar - and there's the intelligent, strong, quick witted, and highly moral Friar. Yes, a staff and cudgel are always present as his weapons, but there are just as many storied with him carrying a sword and using a bow - and being highly proficient with both.

While we're on this subject, a quick note about "Martial Arts". Asian culture was not the only one to develop "Martial Arts", whether unarmed or armed. Much of European Martial Arts has been lost (though there are groups attempting to recreate them - such as the HEMA groups), but they certainly existed. These Arts included kicks, holds, pressure points, etc. just like Asian Unarmed Martial Arts. The Unarmed Skills of an Asian Monk are not out of place with an unarmed Western Monk.

As to Mendicant vows, in reality they were ignored almost as much as they were followed. Although no hard and fast numbers exist, there's strong anecdotal evidence from letters and other writings, that not only was a vow of poverty quite often ignored, so was celibacy. A rather high percentage of Priests even had wives and families (based on different sources, anywhere from 10% to almost 50% of Priests). Friar Tuck however, is always portrayed as holding to his vows for the most part - with the exception of Gluttony (his major weakness), and a bit of retaining some trappings and wealth from his prior life (specifically a sword). Friar Tuck was most likely a Noble before becoming a Priest.

Friar Tuck is portrayed in the stories as a member of the Priesthood and not just the laity, as he performs communion, mass, confession, and even a couple of weddings.

Yes, along with his staff, the rotund Friar is also carrying a dagger and a sword!
(picture from Bold Robin Hood and His Outlaw Band by Louis Rhead (New York and London: Harper & Brothers, 1912)​

An antique wood figurine of Friar Tuck (aprox. 7.5" tall) from between 1954 and 1965.​

And another one (a cartoon this time):

Another one:

And yet another one:

@domino​

I made a writeup for a Western Mendicant (Christian Monk) class for my houseruled 3.x game. For 3.5E I'd use the Monk class progression just re-flavored/fluffed for a European Monk - but otherwise Hit Points, Feats, Skills, Progression, etc., should be exactly the same.​

Christian Monk (Western Mendicant) - (Non-Magical Cleric/Priest)

The adventuring Christian Monk is a travelling mendicant who has taken religious vows, may or may not be a part of an established monastery or monastic order, and spends their days travelling the countryside or serving a specific community, spreading the Word of God and general knowledge through teaching and example. They teach peasants better methods of farming while sowing seeds of religious knowledge. They accompany Nobles for the protection it provides, and for the guidance they can provide to the Noble. Personally, they seek a closer relationship with God by living a simple life devoted to service and study.

As humble and devout as a monk may be, they are by no means defenseless. Physical exertion is part of glorifying God. Travelling monks are very proficient in defending themselves, especially unarmed (striking and grappling) or with a staff. Monks have been known to be proficient with other weapons (such as a sword, especially those who were raised as nobles) but they prefer to defend themselves as non-lethally as possible. The rigors of the road leave them very physically hardy. They will travel with anyone; believer or unbeliever, saint or sinner, noble or peasant. They see themselves as missionaries, meant to spread knowledge of Christianity to all who will listen. They are easily identified by their simple robes and tonsured head.

A classic example of this archetype is Friar Tuck from the Robin Hood legends. Although at the time of this campaign, the term “Friar” is likely anachronistic (only achieving common usage in Middle English, during the 13th century). Typically they would be called Priest or Monk, although a French speaking character might call them Friar (the word Friar comes to Middle English from Old French and Middle French by way of the Normans).


(Hit Points, Class Feats, Skills, and Progression as per the Monk Class - just refluffed for Western Flavor.)

I hope you find this useful. Cheers!​

 

[MadLuke]

Your observation is correct, but I think that only thing you can do is to accept this anomaly in your campaign.

You cannot even try to associate eastern monks (Shaolin tradition, you're right, but not only) with western monks, just due the fact eastern monk belong to a kind of atheistic religion, the western monks instead belong to strongly religion centered orders (not only monks but templars, Jesuitics and so on).

So accept to have saffron dressed monks into your middle Europe fantasy campaign (or definitively forbid the class), and don't think about it no more.

Bye, MadLuke.

 

[El Mahdi]

Your observation is correct, but I think that only thing you can do is to accept this anomaly in your campaign.

You cannot even try to associate eastern monks (Shaolin tradition, you're right, but not only) with western monks, just due the fact eastern monk belong to a kind of atheistic religion, the western monks instead belong to strongly religion centered orders (not only monks but templars, Jesuitics and so on).

So accept to have saffron dressed monks into your middle Europe fantasy campaign (or definitively forbid the class), and don't think about it no more.

Bye, MadLuke.

I disagree. They have more in common than we typically consider.

• Both are dedicated to a life of mendicancy.
• Both follow similar spiritual paths (one follows a path to enlightenment through Budhism, Confucianism, or Taoism - the other follows a path to enlightenment through Christianity - with more similarities than differences between the two).
• Both take vows of poverty, living off the charity of others (through alms).
• Both take vows of celibacy.
• Both voluntarily accept a life of hardship and sacrifice (Ascetism).
• Both consider themselves teachers.

They're both basically the same book, just written in different languages and with different covers.

 

[MadLuke]

[*]Both follow similar spiritual paths (one follows a path to enlightenment through Budhism, Confucianism, or Taoism - the other follows a path to enlightenment through Christianity - with more similarities than

Best compliments for your analysis, however I think this consideration isn't correct: the looking for mind and body perfection via internal research is completely different from external search of a superior entity that could grant you the purity of heart (in western culture the body has been seen for many centuries as source of corruption also).
And I retain this consideration is even more important than all the other ones.

Bye, MadLuke.

 

[El Mahdi]

[MENTION=28855]domino[/MENTION]

Some more ideas to re-flavor the class:

• A/C Bonus simply comes from a life of hard labor and exercise and training in Unarmed Combat (Wrestling and Fist-fighting). Strengthening muscles, increasing Dexterity, and improving endurance and Constitution.
• Unarmed Strike and Unarmed Damage Bonus comes from practice at Wrestling and Fist-fighting. (Fist-fighting as sport was popular with the ancient Greeks and Romans, and persisted into Medieval Italy. It isn't too far of a stretch that it could have migrated in small amounts into other countries of Europe, especially through Monks. Monks would find this an excellent way to defend themselves due to a lack of training with weapons, especially as it's good exercise also.)
• Unarmored Speed Bonus is also derived from a life of hard labor and exercise. Monks may participate in local village games and sporting events, of which running would be one. (Monks also participated in local celebrations, such as May Day and Morris Dances.)
• Flurry of Blows is virtually unchanged except for the Asian weapons allowed. Switch the weapons to Staff and farm implements (which is what most of the allowed Asian weapons were derived from).
• Evasion is derived from exercise and a preternatural connection to God. They sometimes feel a divine hand pushing them to react to something they don't even know is there yet.
• Still Mind becomes Unassailable Faith, but mechanically works the same. This is achieved through prayer, meditation, and doctrinal reading. Their Faith in God and understanding of the scriptures makes them resistant to enchantments.
• Ki Strike becomes Divine Strike, but mechanically works the same. They can channel some of God's divine strength through their unarmed attacks, making them the equivalent of magical attacks.
• Purity of Body remains the same. Due to there vows of purity, maintaining celibacy and not polluting their bodies with alcohol and other vices, they have been blessed by God with immunity to diseases.
• Slow Fall becomes Arms of the Angels, but mechanically works the same. God's host watches over the Monk and assists him in dire need. When withing arms reach of a wall, the Monk can help slow his descent with the help of the Angels Arms holding him.
• Wholeness of Body is mechanically the same, but is a Divine gift of healing directly God.
• Improved Evasion is again the same, but comes from his connection to God.
• Diamond Body becomes Uncorruptable Body. Mechanically works the same, but comes from God due to their continued adherence to their vows.
• Abundant Step becomes God's Footsteps. Mechanically works the same, but is a gift granted by God allowing the Monk a limited ability to walk where normally only God can walk.
• Diamond Soul becomes Chosen Soul. Mechanically works the same, but is a byproduct of God putting his mark on the Monk's soul.
• Quivering Palm becomes Mark of Judgement. Mechanically works the same, but is God working through the Monk and passing Judgement on the target. If the target doesn't shape up, God (through the Monk) can simply decide it's time for the target to die.
• Timeless Body becomes Eternal Life. Mechanically works the sam, but is a gift from god for continued adherence to the Monk's vows.
• Tongue of the Sun and Moon becomes Tongue of the Holy Spirit. Mechanically works the same way, but comes from the touch of the Holy Spirit (like the story of Pentecost).
• Empty Body becomes On the Wings of Angels. Mechanically works the same way, but is through the intercession of God's Angels.
• Perfect Body becomes In the Likeness of God. Mechanically workds the same way, but comes from a life spent in the pursuit of Godliness.

I would also add Latin as an automatic language.

If one wanted to make some actual mechanical changes, try replacing some of the Monk's bonus feats with spell like abilities like Purify Food and Water, Healing, Guidance, Bless, Protection from Evil, Divination, etc.