"How to make a Monster Manual Pt II" article

[Cheiromancer]

A lot of this design philosophy was used in the 3.0 +> 3.5 redesign. Compare the 3.0 Marilith spell-like abilities to a 3.5 Marilith. Common elements are bolded.

3.0: At will-animate dead, bestow curse, chaos hammer, cloudkill, comprehend languages, darkness, desecrate, detect good, detect law, detect magic, inflict serious wounds, magic circle against good (self only), magic weapon, project image, polymorph self, pyrotechnics, see invisibility, shatter, telekinesis, teleport without error (self plus 50 pounds of objects only), unholy aura, and unholy blight. These abilities are as the spells cast by a 13th-level sorcerer (save DC 13 + spell level).

3.5: At will—align weapon, blade barrier (DC 23), magic weapon, project image (DC 23), see invisibility, telekinesis (DC 22), greater teleport (self plus 50 pounds of objects only), unholy aura (DC 25). Caster level 16th. The save DCs are Charisma-based.

Oh, and the 3.5 version has continuous true seeing.

Although the new version is stronger in many ways, the old version could raise an undead army. Desecrate and animate dead is a good combo, and inflict serious wounds can repair damaged undead, and cloudkill doesn't hurt undead minions.

Polymorph Self has good disguise and mobility functions (especially 3.0 polymorph self). Good for spying and deception.

In general, I kinda regret that the 3.0 Marilith was replaced with a 5-round wonder in the revision.

 

[Nifft]

I like the new way.

I don't need massive playtesting for fluff and out-of-combat abilities.
I very much do want massive playtesting for in-combat abilities.

I'm not just paying for made-up monster ideas. I'm paying for quality control. Give me consistent CR estimations and I'll give you my hard-earned cash.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Sammael]

Give me consistent CR estimations

Hah. There is no way in hell to make a consistent CR estimation with the current amount of rule materials available to both players and DMs. I've had to eyeball every single CR (and, consequently, EL) for YEARS now to make sure they work for the party in the game I'm running at the moment.

 

[Doug McCrae]

how many combat have you had that have gone past 5 rounds?

It can vary a lot. The last campaign I was in, most fights were over by round 4. The one I'm currently running we've had several massive fights that lasted 10+ rounds, which I've very much enjoyed. A lot depends on the group makeup. One player switched from a PA barbarian orc with a 30 strength when raging to a paladin with a 12 strength, goad and an AC of 39 buffed. That changes things greatly.

 

[SolitonMan]

I haven't picked up MMV yet, so I don't have an opinion on the specific details of the product. One of my favorite products (in concept, if not execution) was Savage Species. To me this represented the potential for unlimited imagination and experience within the D&D game.

When I see the many comments about monsters being there to be killed, I have to wonder how many folks have played monster races as a PC. My group has had a great time with this take on the game, and it's really allowed for any character concept to be explored.

In that light, I feel it's very important to have a fully-rounded creature description available. Sure, for creatures with little potential for play as a PC the need is limited, but in general, with all of the templates available (especially when including 3rd party choices) it's possible to use pretty much any creature as a PC with enough effort.

As a DM (and as a player) I'd be totally cool with an "Ecology of the ..."-level detail for each creature. I'm not averse to "too much" information. I tend to type up stat blocks that I'll need for a session so I don't have to page through books. Leaving out the session specific extraneous data is easy enough.

But if I or a player want to use a race in a "non-standard" way, then the detail is necessary. I agree that limiting clutter for accessibility is a good thing. Can't we have it both ways, though? Is a 500-page monster book really too much to ask???

Seriously though, I'll eventually buy and use this book, but I don't know how much exposure some of the cooler intelligent creatures will get without the ecological detail.

 

[bento]

I like stream-lined monsters AND written tactics for complicated monsters. If you gave me a monster with either multiple spell-like abilities or caster levels I've got problems prioritizing which comes which. I want monsters where from round one they'll be in it for at least four rounds. But then again I usually run lower-level games where monsters NEVER last that long.

I also like the idea of the monster suddenly hitting a point and changing its abilities to create a new challenge. I'll have to pick up MMV.

 

[Kunimatyu]

MMV still has monsters with flavor abilities, but they're not laid out in an obvious manner like the combat abilities.

For example, Skull Lords have Use Magic Device ~+20, meaning they can make use of a wide array of magic items, and this gives them a logical reason to seek out powerful scrolls, wands, etc. They also have listed in their equipment a scroll of sculpt sound, which, last I checked, is perhaps not a 5-round combat monster spell.

Perhaps the demise of out of combat abilities has been greatly exaggerated?

 

[Glyfair]

Perhaps the demise of out of combat abilities has been greatly exaggerated?

I expect that the intent of the designers is that "this is our goal" and those objecting are reading it as "this is how every monster will be from now on." IMO, there will be exceptions to the rules, where appropriate. However, the design philosophy right now is to make things as easy to use as possible for the DM (both new and old). I think that's an admirable goal.

 

[justinsluder]

I'm sure there will always be exceptions. I'll bet out of combat abilities will be considered as well. But seriously, how many combat have you had that have gone past 5 rounds?

It happens all the time in my games. Then again my players aren't always the most tactically minded.

In my AoW game they went after Filge without resting and only had about 1/2 their HP and no spells left.

It also doesn't help when The Art of War is one of my favorite and most read books.

 

[Kunimatyu]

I expect that the intent of the designers is that "this is our goal" and those objecting are reading it as "this is how every monster will be from now on." IMO, there will be exceptions to the rules, where appropriate. However, the design philosophy right now is to make things as easy to use as possible for the DM (both new and old). I think that's an admirable goal.

Indeed. I also suspect that they'll make a point to give "mastermind" monsters some out of combat abilities, as those types will be the most likely to survive and fight another day.

On the flip side, I really couldn't be bothered when it comes to things like Carnage Demons, who clearly can only meaningfully interact via combat.