How to make a player stop being a paladin

[mythago]

I can understand a GM targetting paladins in that paladins are so high up that when they fall, they fall big. But I really don't understand picking on paladins because the GM thinks paladin = stuffy, moralizing prig.

Some people have only one character in them, I'm afraid. If this guy is like that, rather than trying to powergame, let him. Tell him to ease off if he's doing things that grate on the party (like constantly proselytizing) but otherwise, that's just how he's gonna be.

 

[Tisvon]

Greetings!

(Snip)

And I have to say, as my friend Elder Basilisk said, be up front with the player. I can't believe all of the people that want to play all kinds of sereptitious mechanical antics to make the paladin suffer. That is just immature nonsense. If one wants to exclude all paladins from the campaign, fine. But be honest about it. Don't play stupid little baby-games. Such antics remind me of power-mad jealous 12-year old DM's. The exclusion of paladins, though, should be a campaign choice, not some mechanical intervention and fiat because the DM or other players just don't want another player to play a Paladin. That is just manipulative and petty.

(Snip)

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I agree with almost all of your views. However, I happen to be 12 years old, and I find your description of the actions of the person in question as the antics of a “power-mad jealous 12-year old DM” extremely distasteful. I dungeon master quite a bit, and I wouldn’t describe myself as power-mad or jealous. I would appreciate it if you did not use age-based stereotypes.

 

[SHARK]

Greetings!

Well, Tisvon, I'm glad that you agree with me.

However, though you may certainly be an exceptional 12 year old Dungeon Master, my experience of 24 years of gaming has shown me that the description of such 12 years olds is quite accurate. You, however, being the exception, should not be offended, because as an exception, the assessment does not include you personally. It is an assessment of the hundreds of other 12 year old Dungeon Masters that are your peers.

"If the shoe fits, wear it." Likewise, if the shoe doesn't "fit" you, then you aren't wearing it.

The question really being, of course, do most 12 year olds tend to have such immature attitudes? Well, certainly in my own experience, and many others, they do. The exceptions, like yourself, tend to be quite unusual.

You, being an exception, should be glad that you have risen above the ranks of your peers that so often embrace such frustrating attitudes, for you are indeed one of the few in such an age group.

Cheers!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

 

[Teflon Billy]

I agree with almost all of your views. However, I happen to be 12 years old, and I find your description of the actions of the person in question as the antics of a “power-mad jealous 12-year old DM” extremely distasteful. I dungeon master quite a bit, and I wouldn’t describe my self as power-mad or jealous...

Then he isn't talking about you, is he?

 

[jgbrowning]

coming from my vast experience and my complete and utter refusal to read this entire thread..

i'd say anyone that doesn't play more than one character type is missing out on a world of fun!

try to convince the guy he can have just as much, if not more, fun playing something else. Maybe he can't, i can always be wrong, but most people like different roles.

joe b.

 

[mythago]

Likewise, if the shoe doesn't "fit" you, then you aren't wearing it.

Doesn't change the fact that somebody just accused you of wearing the shoe in question.

 

[SHARK]

Greetings!

Hey there Teflon Billy! Good to see you!

Hi Mythago! Well, I stand by my assessment that it is common for 12 year old DM's to have such immature attitudes, just like, well, teenagers are immature, heh? The fact that *some* teenagers may be mature for their age, doesn't change the fact that teenagers are *immature*.

Joe--Why do you think people like to slam paladins so much?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

 

[Tisvon]

Greetings!

Hey there Teflon Billy! Good to see you!

Hi Mythago! Well, I stand by my assessment that it is common for 12 year old DM's to have such immature attitudes, just like, well, teenagers are immature, heh? The fact that *some* teenagers may be mature for their age, doesn't change the fact that teenagers are *immature*.

Joe--Why do you think people like to slam paladins so much?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Well, I bow to your superior knowledge, as I have been DMed by only three of four others my age. However, none of these acted as you described as the "common" attitude of child dungeon masters. While it is possible that these were the rare exceptions, I find that extremely unlikely.

In any case, I think that we should stop this semi-pointless debate, as it would be a shame to have a thread hijacked because of a single sentence in a post. (If you want to, make another post and then we'll stop.)

 

[SHARK]

Greetings!

Hail, Tisvon! You are fortunate to have a mature group of friends to play with! I have several teenagers or so in my groups that are quite mature, but as I mentioned, in my experience, they are decidedly unusual. In any event, no offense was intended.

Game On!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

 

[Dragonblade]

Basically, this sounds like a problem that needs to be handled out of game.

The DM and the players need to determine exactly why you don't want this player to play a paladin anymore. Is it because you want to play and "evil" themed campaign? Is it because the paladin PC questions acts of dubious morality by the other players?

Does the party want to play a swashbuckling campaign but the paladin PC is still tramping around in full plate?

Then approach the paladin player about this and have a good discussion.

All of the suggestions of messing with the paladin or trying to find some way putting the paladin in some sort of moral dilemma to make him lose his paladin hood, should be ignored. Such antics are immature and should be beneath any good DM.

However, I must comment on something that another posted. They said they watched Spiderman and referred to the scene where Spidey was forced to try and save both the children in the cable car and Mary Jane. The poster implied that failure to save both groups would result in loss of paladinhood.

I just have to say that is absolute NONSENSE! The paladin would never lose his paladin status for being put in an impossible situation and unable to save someone because of it.

And any DM who did such a thing to a player who played his paladin PC in good faith and did his best to save the kids and/or Mary Jane is a bad DM. Period.