generalhenry
First Post
why not?
+2 str +2 con
large size
How to make half-giants for 4th ed, as no ECL?
- Thread starter Silverblade The Ench
- Start date
why not?
+2 str +2 con
large size
shinmizu
First Post
I disagree with the absurd statements of just "+2 str, +2 con." It just provides more fuel for the many voices that complain about the lack of variety and flavor in 4e.
The flavor of a campaign setting should always take precedence over "design goals" set by some game designer who isn't going to be playing in your game. Otherwise, what's the point of having distinct campaign settings? Oh, yes, the flavor text will be written differently, but they'll all play practically the same. Might as well just write some fanfics.
It's absurd for a human fighter to be just as strong as an over 10' tall behemoth with close to a 9:1 mass advantage over said human.
I'd like to play Dark Sun, not Forgebberlancehawk.
The flavor of a campaign setting should always take precedence over "design goals" set by some game designer who isn't going to be playing in your game. Otherwise, what's the point of having distinct campaign settings? Oh, yes, the flavor text will be written differently, but they'll all play practically the same. Might as well just write some fanfics.
It's absurd for a human fighter to be just as strong as an over 10' tall behemoth with close to a 9:1 mass advantage over said human.
I'd like to play Dark Sun, not Forgebberlancehawk.
shinmizu
First Post
I was quite happy with Silverblade's original stats before everyone started whining about how it didn't fit the bland 4e core (and I don't see why it should), sans the Unstoppable racial feat, which I'm not sure about.TimeOut said:
Regardless, "+2 str, +2 con" is absurd for a half-giant.
Last edited:
VBMEW-01
First Post
As suggested, I think a +2 Str +2 Con with kickers (via healing surges and the suggested +2/+2 encounter power) would give the flavor needed, maybe with a greater than normal carrying capacity to boot.
If you wanted to further balance their dull mentalities, use the suggested limit on skill training (3) but only applied to Int/Wis/Cha skills (you could even single intimidate out here as being the exception). Further, you could give them a greater bonus to Athletics and Endurance than normal (say +3 or +4) to further compensate their giantish nature.
To me ability mods are the least important part of making a race stand out, but that's just me.
If you wanted to further balance their dull mentalities, use the suggested limit on skill training (3) but only applied to Int/Wis/Cha skills (you could even single intimidate out here as being the exception). Further, you could give them a greater bonus to Athletics and Endurance than normal (say +3 or +4) to further compensate their giantish nature.
To me ability mods are the least important part of making a race stand out, but that's just me.
Leatherhead
Possibly a Idiot.
shinmizu said:
So anyone who doesn't agree with you is whining?
shinmizu
First Post
Eh, ok, I agree my kneejerk use of "whining" is hyperbole and uncalled for. I apologize.Leatherhead said:
However, despite my faults in presentation, the absurdity of the attempts to balance a half-giant statwise with humans and the weaker demihumans by limiting the very stats that greatly distinguish them remains. Last I checked, this was supposed to be an exception-based system, and exceptions need to be made when the core character creation fails utterly to properly capture the flavor and essence of a being.
I'd just say rule that half-giants can't be PCs, if the well-documented physical imposition over other PCs just rubs you the wrong way. Otherwise, exceptions are exceptions, and let the house ruling commence--just try and balance it as much as possible without entering the realm of the ludicrous. (Begone, plaid half-giants!)
For Silverblade: more power to you for trying to preserve flavor against the homogenization of 4e. Despite my fondness for the Dark Sun setting, I am extremely leery of any Wizards-based setting material that may come in 2010 (or later) if the 4e "design goals" take precedence over the spirit of the settings. (Major FR fans seem to be claiming their campaign as a victim.)
generalhenry
First Post
Well take a look at the MM and the PHB. It's not that hard for a human to have higher strength than a giant. Hill giants have a mere 21 str.
However that does NOT mean they're just as 'strong'
A giant uses can carry more and can use larger weapons for higher damage.
Silverblade The Ench
First Post
Roger,
halfgiants *ARE* Large.
Changing that is in direct violation of Dark Sun millieu.
Sorry
You cannot muck aorund the setting like that, to fit 4th ed rules, or you throw out the baby with the bath water.
3rd ed ExpPsiHandbook halfgiants = *crap*, sorry.
Dark SUn is a very odd, fun setting. Wrecking the setting to fit some rules = bad.
See the total mess of the setting they made with the novels/later boxed set etc :/
Halfgiants are big and a hell of a lot stronger than Humans and tougher...but they are dumber and more easy to control with psionics because of that.
They are a proper, cannon Dark Sun PC race.
In Dark Sun, rarity & expense of goods and water, are serious balancing points if proprly DMed, as it's unlike normal D&D settings.
Please note, I am a DM, I don't play halfgiants, I'm not doing this to have my own "I winzzors!" race
It's a major trope of Dark Sun that messing with a halfgiant you run the risk of getting your ass handed to you, big time, lol. Hence, they serve as favoured bodyguards, usually kept in check with good treatment and/or psionics. Some become free mercenaries, adventurers, even templars and psions.
They are also favoured military regiments of halfgiants.
Halfgiants are not very common though, about 1:10 at most, iirc?
if 4th ed cannot allow a race to have a clear major advantage in some way but balance it...instead of nice but boring medium, then there's a problem.
There's nothing wrong with the idea of halfgiants as PCs. They are not as bright as Humans, but they are not all actually morons. They cna craft, be most classes, have curiosity, friends etc. So denying them PC status = wrong.
So, some method has ot be found to allow the odder Dark Sun races: thri-kreen, halfgiants and aaracokra, to work as 4th ed races.
Probably belgoi, pterran and bazrags too, but they shouldn't be too hard to convert.
halfgiants *ARE* Large.
Changing that is in direct violation of Dark Sun millieu.
Sorry
You cannot muck aorund the setting like that, to fit 4th ed rules, or you throw out the baby with the bath water.
3rd ed ExpPsiHandbook halfgiants = *crap*, sorry.
Dark SUn is a very odd, fun setting. Wrecking the setting to fit some rules = bad.
See the total mess of the setting they made with the novels/later boxed set etc :/
Halfgiants are big and a hell of a lot stronger than Humans and tougher...but they are dumber and more easy to control with psionics because of that.
They are a proper, cannon Dark Sun PC race.
In Dark Sun, rarity & expense of goods and water, are serious balancing points if proprly DMed, as it's unlike normal D&D settings.
Please note, I am a DM, I don't play halfgiants, I'm not doing this to have my own "I winzzors!" race
It's a major trope of Dark Sun that messing with a halfgiant you run the risk of getting your ass handed to you, big time, lol. Hence, they serve as favoured bodyguards, usually kept in check with good treatment and/or psionics. Some become free mercenaries, adventurers, even templars and psions.
They are also favoured military regiments of halfgiants.
Halfgiants are not very common though, about 1:10 at most, iirc?
if 4th ed cannot allow a race to have a clear major advantage in some way but balance it...instead of nice but boring medium, then there's a problem.
There's nothing wrong with the idea of halfgiants as PCs. They are not as bright as Humans, but they are not all actually morons. They cna craft, be most classes, have curiosity, friends etc. So denying them PC status = wrong.
So, some method has ot be found to allow the odder Dark Sun races: thri-kreen, halfgiants and aaracokra, to work as 4th ed races.
Probably belgoi, pterran and bazrags too, but they shouldn't be too hard to convert.
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