D&D 5E (2014) How To Make High Level 5E Work.For You +

[Reynard]

THIS IS A + THREAD. If you don't think it is possible to enjoy high level play in 5E, awesome! But maybe this isn't the thread for you.

This thread is about discussing and providing ideas and support for making high level (16+) 5E (any flavor) work at the table and be fun, since WotC and most 3PPs don't seem interested in doing so.

If you have run high level 5E, share your experiences and frustrations. We, collectively, will try and determine what works, what doesn't, and how to make our high level games work better.

If you have questions or concerned, ask away! Maybe we, again collectively, can help.

One thing: negative experiences with high level 5E are fine as long as they are presented constructively. E.g. how to do it better, what to avoid, etc.

I also would like to avoid relying too much on theory. Share your EXPERIENCES.

 

[jmartkdr2]

One thing I've noticed about high-level play is it becomes even more important to actively manage spotlight time - letting class features dictate this can result in some nasty imbalances, such as letting a spell skip another character's moment.

Don't let fabricate skip the blacksmith fighter's montage.

 

[Reynard]

One thing I've noticed about high-level play is it becomes even more important to actively manage spotlight time - letting class features dictate this can result in some nasty imbalances, such as letting a spell skip another character's moment.

Don't let fabricate skip the blacksmith fighter's montage.

While I agree with the overall point, I am a little puzzled at your choice of example. First, fabricate isn't particularly high level (4th). And, are blacksmith montages a thing?

 

[Reynard]

I think one of the primary bugbears for high level play is how to handle high level monsters, their minions, and encounters in general. I think it is self evident that 5E core design does not do this well. It falls down at almost every turn. But that does not mean it isn't fixable.

For general encounter difficulty math, I have found through experience that the LevelUp A5E encounter builder works really well (even with 5E 2024 characters, though I usually calculate it based on a level higher). This gets you in the ballpark.

But the big problem is with high level bosses. They just don't work as written. We have had a few threads on this, and there are a number of potential solutions, but I think multi-phase creatures is the most accessible one: that is, your boss, when defeated, should transform into something EVEN BIGGER AND BADDER. I use another method a lot, where the boss is a multiphase, multipart creature, but that is more complex and I have not tried to write up my methodology in a generally accessible way yet (I should get on that).

 

[Knaves Quill]

High level mosters can have a glut of abilities and features, bells and whistles, but too many in the same fight will almost gaurantee you will forget something as the GM that could have made the fight more interesting or tense. Thus, try to limit the amount of complicated monsters in fights. Scary-high and constant damage keeps the pressure on high-level PCs like nothing else.

I've also become a fan of not rolling damage for monsters at high levels; too many dice. The times I've used average damage went so much better/faster.

 

[Aurel Guthrie]

Talk to your players about the high level options they're getting and what they plan to do with them.

Example. Your player's wizard is getting Teleport. Ask them to tell you in advance when they want to use it, and where they're going so you can prepare. If they tell you they're teleporting to X city next session, you will at least not be blindsided. You can also offer your perspective and let them know you prepared the adventure to go in X direction and teleporting across the world would derail that. Work together with your players! It's ok to pull back the curtain from time to time.

About martial/caster disparity at higher levels, If your casters keep getting world-altering abilities, talk to your martials to see how they feel, and don't be afraid to give them some magic items or boons if they suddenly feel underpowered in comparison I'm personally a fan of giving martials an extra attunement slot at levels 9, 13, and 17. This is obviously not a solution that will work for every group though!

Sometimes it's less about damage and more about feeling unimportant. A big part of the disparity is the effect a character can have on the world at large. When the casters are using multiple Sendings every day, resurrecting lore figures, planeshifting to different planes, it can stink when the best you can do is swing your sword. If your martials feel like they're not making a difference, consider working with them to see if you can give them some features that matter outside of combat.

Quick example I've seen before, giving the Rogue an "I know a guy" feature, where every time the party is in a new settlement they can say "I know a guy" that can help them with their current situation. Perhaps a thief sidekick that can aid the party, a magic item broker, a scholar that has information regarding a plot they've been trying to solve, etc.

 

[Zardnaar]

Custom monsters would be my suggestion.

Sonething like 4E elites. 15 to all saves, +2 AC boisterous to hp. Legendary resistance doubled.

Bosses get +10 ir outright immunity.

5.0 monsters are weasauce. The new exclusive ones to 5 5 are better. Greater magic resistance on the rakshasa? Put that on more monsters.

 

[Mort]

With high level, the DM faces a choice:

They can either make sure to enforce the pace of play - meaning make sure there are ample reasons for the party to not ALWAYS get in the rest/otherwise reset; or

Significantly overclock the encounters. As in if a challenge is intended the encounter better be Deadly+. The downside with this is twofold. One, the party is high level too many really difficult encounters where their lives are threatened over and over can cheapen that. Two, overclocking too much can easily result in death of one or more PCs, there is a tipping point. One way to mitigate, don't nerf escape routes, high level PCs have many exit options, and too MANY scenarios (especially published ones) tend to explicitly nope them. If you're going to heavily overclock, don't do that.

 

[Mort]

Custom monsters would be my suggestion.

Sonething like 4E elites. 15 to all saves, +2 AC boisterous to hp. Legendary resistance doubled.

Bosses get +10 ir outright immunity.

5.0 monsters are weasauce. The new exclusive ones to 5 5 are better. Greater magic resistance on the rakshasa? Put that on more monsters.

I hadn't looked at the new rakshasa. Love the greater magic resistance! Definitely getting some use, and soon.

 

[Aurel Guthrie]

Every once in a while give the party a very trivial encounter so they can see how much they've grown. Just because they're level 15 doesn't mean road bandits suddenly don't exist anymore, right? It doesn't even need a map and it can be resolved after the party vaporizes one guy instantly and the rest flees. It's good to keep throwing challenges at them, but sometimes you need to give them an easy win that they can laugh about, especially if it's against an enemy that they struggled with at a lower level.