how to make spartan type warriors?

Particle_Man said:
A D&D spartan society would be interesting. No rogues, priests, wizards, etc...

EVERYBODY is a fighter!

How macho can you get? :)

Hey, every army needs some rogues for scouts, also need experts for healing and smithing, etc.
 

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I actually have a 'hoplite' feat that let you use any spear one-handed, with different STR requirements for 5' shortspear & 10' longspear. Probably the historical hoplite spear is best modelled by the D&D longspear. I also have 15' awl pikes, but these need 2 hands to use.

OTOH you could argue that anyone should be able to use a shortspear 1-handed, it's not difficult.
 

If you wanted to play a Spartan type in the standard campaign, ie. one where you won't be fighting shoulder to shoulder with brother Spartans all that often, Imp. Bullrush is a good way to go. Shoulder to shield, your going to force your enemy back. Shield pin is another good feat, going shield to shield you fight right over the cover as you force his shield into a stable position with yours. Character developement wise, great fortitude and iron will are key. Equipment wise, breast plate will do for the full armor of a Spartan man, add in a large shield and your standard spear, short sword and your done. Keep in mind the average hoplite was amoung the elite of the polis, they had the money to supply their own gear, they were the equivallent to knights in later European combat.

Warwise, the average phalanx was at least four deep and eight wide. For some really good pictures and research, go to "Greeks and Romans at War" by Peter Connelly{SP}. Great pics of weapons, formations and tactics. The formations were tight with men in the rear ranks driving those in front of them forward, the senior men having been placed in the rear to steady up the lines. The real killing in battle happened after ranks broke on one side or the other. In a fight, the formations tended to drift toward the left as each man saught the protection of the shield of his line mate. Thebes eventually stacked their formations heaviest on their right so the enemy would drift into their strength. For most of their history, hoplites fought unsupported. The use of missle weapons by the Greeks was originally restricted to a few opening barrages by the lower class 'peltas'{SP}, with slings, javilins and other ancient weapons, before the real fighting took place. Last fact of fun, Athenean men served from age 20 to 60, so old men in the ranks with years of fighting experience were not unheard of.

Kail
 

Spartan Prists

Particle_Man said:
A D&D spartan society would be interesting. No rogues, priests, wizards, etc...

EVERYBODY is a fighter!

How macho can you get? :)

Spartan armies, like other Greek armies of the time, had attached priests to perform pre-battle divinations and sacrifices. If the signs wern't ausipicious, they may not fight.

PS. I made shortspears a 1-handed martial weapon, but 2-handed simple weapon; rather like the bastard sword, but martial/simple instead of exotic/martial.
 
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I have my hobgoblins usually spartanlike...

But you have to use houserules to allow wielding a reach weapon plus a shield.

IMC, sometimes I just use a row of tower shields and a row of polearm wielders behind them... Bad against fireballs though :D

Feats that allow to use a longspear with shield are mostly ok.

I just allowed someone to use them together with movement halved, no charge/run. And they had to assign one quarter of the battlefield as threatened direction (turning around in that formation is bad).
 


S'mon said:
I actually have a 'hoplite' feat that let you use any spear one-handed, with different STR requirements for 5' shortspear & 10' longspear. Probably the historical hoplite spear is best modelled by the D&D longspear.

I'd guess (and I do mean guess) that this is the complication that the designers of 3E were trying to avoid. There are numerous systems out there that place a attribute requirement on certain weapons. I believe that makes sense, but it does add complications. My personal thought is that the complications aren't worth it. However, if the base system does not model the world that you want to hold your adventure in, then don't let anyone tell you not to change it. :D

I would only suggest taking that consistently across your weapons. Does a greatsword or greataxe require a higher strength to use it. God knows that I (John personally) don't have the strength to swing a Greataxe even once in 6 seconds.

This is then the slippery path back to weapon speeds and using different modifiers vs armor. Yes it makes sense that a mace isn't slowed down as much to mash chain into someone's flesh, etc...

John
 

thanks for all the help. In my game that I'm running, I'm making the barbaric tribes spartanesque. They are much smaller in number than the rest of human civilization, but still war often with the "refined" human cities because of their superior warriors. That, and they seem to be the only people around with war elephants (but that's a different story). You guys have given me lots of ideas for how to make a spartan regiment without breaking the rules (I'm a stickler about being able to point to a passage in a book, even though I am the DM and "always right"). I'll let you know what I come up with.
 

Re: Spartan Prists

bmcdaniel said:

PS. I made shortspears a 1-handed martial weapon, but 2-handed simple weapon; rather like the bastard sword, but martial/simple instead of exotic/martial.

I think that's a good solution - it's not like the shortspear is any more powerful than a longsword. I think the longspear is too long for the hoplites. The later Macedonians used long pikes (sarissas) in a formation where their spears definitely did overlap ahead of the front rank. Those would definitely be longspears, or even longer (something with 15' reach!). Useless any closer than that, though.

Improved Bull Rush seems like a good feat for representing the shoving action in hoplite combat.

You could in addition have a Hoplite Bull Rush feat which gives +1 per person behind you who also has Hoplite Bull Rush, to both Bull Rush attempts and rolls to resist them. The deeper the hoplite formation, the better they were at pushing back their opponents.
 

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