How to resolve multiple "at the start of your turn" effects and miss damage

[Lob]

Hey guys,

Two questions that came up after a recent Encounters battle.

1) How should multiple effects that trigger "at the start of your turn" be resolved?

The situation was thus: my character was a Cosmic Magic Sorc in the Sun phase (radiant damage to adjacent enemies at the start of my turn). The enemy adjacent dealt 5 damage to everyone within his aura at the start of their turn. If I took that damage my character would be bloodied and his cosmic phase would change from Sun to Moon.

The question was: Does my character take the damage first, get bloodied, have his Cosmic Phase change and thus avoid damaging the adjacent enemy... or do I damage the enemy first, then take aura damage and have my Phase changed?


2) The Ice Javelins spell says:
Hit: deal damage and ongoing 5 cold damage (save ends)
Miss: half damage

Some skills/spells specifically state that if you miss you deal half damage and no other bonuses. If I miss a monster with Ice Javelins, since the description only says "half damage", does that mean the monster takes the ongoing damage too or no?


Thank you!

 

[Aulirophile]

Rare instance of simultaneous effects. You take 5 damage and become bloodied, he takes 5 damage, and your phase changes. Wait till you get around to wondering if the guy only had 4 hp left (the answer is the same, but it is going to bug you more).

No, it means half the rolled damage. (1d10+mods/2 IIRC the damage die correctly). Remember you roll to hit for each target but only roll damage once for a multi-target power, so if you hit say, one target and missed two, you'd halve the damage roll you used for the hit target. And if you hit all three you'd just use that one damage roll.

Ongoing damage is not considered to be "damage" if you read a bunch of powers, it is an Effect (Save Ends). Why Weakened doesn't apply to it and etc.

 

[Lob]

OK, so the damage would be simulatenous and only after the damage resolves my phase would have changed because I became bloodied, right? As for Ice Javelins, my major question was whether a monster I missed with this spell would also take the ongoing 5 cold damage. Some skills specifically state that secondary effects don't apply on a miss, however Ice Javelins only says "Half damage" on miss. Does that mean "half damage on miss" and nothing else... or half damage plus the 5 ongoing cold damage on miss? Thanks!

 

[Aulirophile]

OK, so the damage would be simulatenous and only after the damage resolves my phase would have changed because I became bloodied, right? As for Ice Javelins, my major question was whether a monster I missed with this spell would also take the ongoing 5 cold damage. Some skills specifically state that secondary effects don't apply on a miss, however Ice Javelins only says "Half damage" on miss. Does that mean "half damage on miss" and nothing else... or half damage plus the 5 ongoing cold damage on miss? Thanks!

Correct.

It means half damage and nothing else. If you just read it like Hit: 1d8+cha damage, Dazed (Save Ends)
Miss: half damage

It becomes a little clearer. Powers are formatted under the assumption that anything that is "save ends" that is not mentioned just isn't included, including ongoing damage (because it isn't "damage" it is an "save ends effect.") Just one of those templating issues that causes confusion for some people. You'll note in later powers they've started add lines like "and no ongoing damage" because people kept getting confused by this. Oddly that has added to the confusion, because now people assume if that line isn't there then they get the ongoing damage. sigh.

 

[Lob]

Cool, thank you for the answers! That zombie was toast anyway, but now I know how to handle spells with miss conditions.

 

[Xeterog]

Rare instance of simultaneous effects. You take 5 damage and become bloodied, he takes 5 damage, and your phase changes. Wait till you get around to wondering if the guy only had 4 hp left (the answer is the same, but it is going to bug you more).

Actually, I believe that you get to choose the order that things happen to you at the start of your turn. (or at the end of your turn for that matter)...that's how I've always played it at least.

 

[Aulirophile]

Actually, I believe that you get to choose the order that things happen to you at the start of your turn. (or at the end of your turn for that matter)...that's how I've always played it at least.

Feel free to post the rules text for that. I can imagine it leading to some pretty cheesy things (like, for instance, if he had been in the third phase he could take the damage, become bloodied, end up in phase 1, and then deal 5 damage). Only text I am aware of that governs start of turn is PHB p. 268 and it doesn't let you do anything nearly that powerful.

 

[DracoSuave]

Feel free to post the rules text for that. I can imagine it leading to some pretty cheesy things (like, for instance, if he had been in the third phase he could take the damage, become bloodied, end up in phase 1, and then deal 5 damage). Only text I am aware of that governs start of turn is PHB p. 268 and it doesn't let you do anything nearly that powerful.

Dungeons and Dragons is not a collectable card game. Not every rule has to be explicit or precisely defined.

The -correct- answer is:

Whatever the DM deems is fair or that circumstance.


There is no consistant 'this way and no other way' rule. This case is 100% subject to DM arbitration. He might have a reason things go one way or not the other.

 

[keterys]

The player can choose the order - in this case, dealing the damage, then getting bloodied and switching his aura.

In other cases, letting regeneration heal him first before taking damage so he isn't reduced to 0.

Same goes for monsters. PCs and creatures have no ability to override a person's wishes - as long as it happens at the start, or end, just like everything else.

 

[Mengu]

The player can choose the order - in this case, dealing the damage, then getting bloodied and switching his aura.

In other cases, letting regeneration heal him first before taking damage so he isn't reduced to 0.

This is how we've always played it. The only source I can find is something a former member of the design team said.