D&D 5E How viable is 5E to play at high levels?

[Oofta]

I don't act like that. I believe that you are missreading me, as Tony did when I've said that D&D isn't a high stakes game. As i've said three times now, cliffhangers aren't the issue, is the MEANINGLESS cliffhangers and the delaying of a climax forever. I've even quoted the Marvel DCU as a proper way to build cliffhangers: each movie or episode of a show has its own climax and then construct a cliffhanger with a twist of the plot, or the introduction of a new conflict. Only the last episodes of a season delay a bigger climax for a To Be Continued, but even them they have a climax of its own, see the Marvel Agents of SHIELD to see what I'm saying. And the DMG explicitly says that each adventure should have a climax and equate adventures to episodes! What I'm saying, again this for the fourth time, it's that its DIFFICULTIER to build a climax if the party has most of its resources available! That's why it is important the Adventuring Day. If it weren't, there wouldn't be one.



And I've already acknowledge that. I've said that the Adventuring Day is a modern construction but the narrative structure of an adventure or session isn't.

What I don't understand is how you can quote an episodic TV show (which has episode ups/downs/climaxes) and then don't see the correlation of an episode to a gaming session.

From a goal perspective, they're the same. I've gotten a lot of ideas for pacing and having "episodes" that have nothing to do with the main "plot" (or do they?) from TV.

 

[Oofta]

I don't act like that. I believe that you are missreading me, as Tony did when I've said that D&D isn't a high stakes game. As i've said three times now, cliffhangers aren't the issue, is the MEANINGLESS cliffhangers and the delaying of a climax forever. I've even quoted the Marvel DCU as a proper way to build cliffhangers: each movie or episode of a show has its own climax and then construct a cliffhanger with a twist of the plot, or the introduction of a new conflict. Only the last episodes of a season delay a bigger climax for a To Be Continued, but even them they have a climax of its own, see the Marvel Agents of SHIELD to see what I'm saying. And the DMG explicitly says that each adventure should have a climax and equate adventures to episodes! What I'm saying, again this for the fourth time, it's that its DIFFICULTIER to build a climax if the party has most of its resources available! That's why it is important the Adventuring Day. If it weren't, there wouldn't be one.



And I've already acknowledge that. I've said that the Adventuring Day is a modern construction but the narrative structure of an adventure or session isn't.

What I don't understand is how you can quote an episodic TV show (which has episode ups/downs/climaxes) and then don't see the correlation of an episode to a gaming session.

From a goal perspective, they're the same. I've gotten a lot of ideas for pacing and having "episodes" that have nothing to do with the main "plot" (or do they?) from TV.

 

[Sadras]

Grief - double post
Karma you bastard!!!

 

[Sadras]

For those not convinced by @Oofta's first rebuttal, I suggest you also take a look at his second one too.

 

[Helldritch]

I am a lot like Tony and Oofta on that.

I try to end session on a cliff hanger as much as possible.

It can be in the start/middle/end of a fight. Right before they interrogate a prisonner. Right after the prisonner talked so that the information has time to sink in. The way to end a session can be a great incentive to captivate your players. I have been doing that for 36 years now. It never failed me.

As for Marvel cliff hangers... some of them are just cameo. (But don't worry, I am a big fan of Marvel.)

 

[CapnZapp]

You can say that an adventuring day lasts:


*Gritty realism = 1 week in fiction time
*Default = 24 hours in fiction time
*Epic Heroism= about 3 hours in fiction time

And those are all adventuring days. It doesn't matter, really.

*Please* tell me you are cognizant of a fourth option too:

Flexible = Variable, so 1 week one scenario, 24 hours the next adventure, then 3 hours the one after that. All in one and the same campaign, for the same player characters

Yes? No?

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

 

[Helldritch]

Yes and no. It all depends on the willingness of the players to use modified rules depending on the situations.

My games are very democratic. The players and the DM (me) agrees on every rule options that we want to incorporate.
If a changing rest rule is in order to further a story, I think it might be acceptable. But it would be on a case by case basis.
Normaly, if you adopt one rule, it must stay that way for the whole campaign, otherwise, the appearence of stability might be compromised. I have noticed throughout the years that players much prefer an "absolute" rule over a flexible one. But anything can be done if everyone agree to it.

 

[OB1]

I've been thinking about this topic a lot as I've started to prep the Tier IV portion of the game I've been DMing the last 3 years. I didn't have any issues challenging the players during Tier III, but want give myself some more flexibility as the PCs head off their world and into the Outer Planes. Because this is a change mid campaign, I'll have to get buy in from all the players, but will use in my next campaign for sure. For resting, I've spread the short and long rest mechanics across different time scales by decoupling the healing portions of resting from the power recovery portion.

Death Saves
1. When you drop to 0 HP, make a death saving throw. DC is 10 or the number of hit points below 0 the attack took you, whichever is higher. (change from current)
2. When you fail a death save, you also gain a level of exhaustion. (change from current)
3. Death save failures are removable one at a time by a long rest or by Greater Restoration or similar magic. (Currently rule in my campaign has death save failures reset after a short rest)

Resting
Breather - 5 Minute Rest where you can spend Hit Die (current campaign rule)
Short Rest - 1 hour rest uninterrupted by combat resets short rest abilities (current campaign rule)
Long Rest - 8 hour rest uninterrupted by combat resets long rest abilities and removes 1 level of exhaustion (modified from current campaign rule)
Extended Rest - 7 day rest uninterrupted by combat resets HP to Max, returns half level worth of hit die, and removes 1 death save failure (new rule, moving healing portions of long rest to new mechanic)

 

[Helldritch]

Death Saves
1. When you drop to 0 HP, make a death saving throw. DC is 10 or the number of hit points below 0 the attack took you, whichever is higher. (change from current)
2. When you fail a death save, you also gain a level of exhaustion. (change from current)
3. Death save failures are removable one at a time by a long rest or by Greater Restoration or similar magic. (Currently rule in my campaign has death save failures reset after a short rest)

For 1. Would you allow constitution bonus and proficiency to the save then?
For 2. Why didn't I think of this myself? Or the devs?
For 3. I would stick with the short rest but only if you can make somekind of save.

Resting
Breather - 5 Minute Rest where you can spend Hit Die (current campaign rule)
Short Rest - 1 hour rest uninterrupted by combat resets short rest abilities (current campaign rule)
Long Rest - 8 hour rest uninterrupted by combat resets long rest abilities and removes 1 level of exhaustion (modified from current campaign rule)
Extended Rest - 7 day rest uninterrupted by combat resets HP to Max, returns half level worth of hit die, and removes 1 death save failure (new rule, moving healing portions of long rest to new mechanic)

Breather: Excellent idea. I like that one.
Short Rest: From what I understand it is as normal. I imagine that you can spend HD?
Long Rest: (keep the extended rest in mind) I would go with the following: Returns one HD worth of healing.
Extended Rest: Returns all HD worth of healing. Removes all death save failure effects.

I would remove the uninterrupted by combat portion in all categories. I find this too punishing. This would pretty much force players to have either a cleric, a bard or a druid as a full time healer. Again, this would put the bard/cleric/druid in the healer role for ever which is something that has been partialy "removed" by allowing the Healing HD feature of the game. I like that cleric can now safely take a more aggressive role in the game and not be walking healing potions. But otherwise I do find your ideas quite interesting. Especialy the Breather and the exhaustion level for failing a death save. Kudo.

 

[OB1]

For 1. Would you allow constitution bonus and proficiency to the save then?
For 2. Why didn't I think of this myself? Or the devs?
For 3. I would stick with the short rest but only if you can make somekind of save.

1. I'm back and forth on that. On one hand, I think Con is plenty powerful enough, on the other, it does seem like it should have an effect. I'm leaning towards allowing the con bonus but not the save proficiency bonus.
2. Seems obvious, right?
3. Hmmmm, I'm thinking a DC 25 heal check on a long rest might be appropriate here to remove 1 failed death save (one attempt per long rest). But on a failure of 10 or more you gain another death failure (too harsh?) or level of exhaustion?

Breather: Excellent idea. I like that one.
Short Rest: From what I understand it is as normal. I imagine that you can spend HD?
Long Rest: (keep the extended rest in mind) I would go with the following: Returns one HD worth of healing.
Extended Rest: Returns all HD worth of healing. Removes all death save failure effects.

I would remove the uninterrupted by combat portion in all categories. I find this too punishing. This would pretty much force players to have either a cleric, a bard or a druid as a full time healer. Again, this would put the bard/cleric/druid in the healer role for ever which is something that has been partialy "removed" by allowing the Healing HD feature of the game. I like that cleric can now safely take a more aggressive role in the game and not be walking healing potions. But otherwise I do find your ideas quite interesting. Especialy the Breather and the exhaustion level for failing a death save. Kudo.

The uninterrupted rest rule is the primary way i prevent 5MWDs in locations where the party shouldn't be resting. I credit it for helping keep Tier III under control and making higher level play viable without a lot of other changes. Don't have a cleric, bard or druid in the party and didn't find it an issue. Note that if they are interrupted, they can start the rest over immediately. The idea is that if they are traveling through the Very Scary Forest, they may be better off pressing on to get past the forest rather than resting every 5 minutes because they got into one fight.

Yes, you can spend HD during any type of rest.

I like the idea of some HD coming back on the Long Rest. I think 1HD per Tier would be appropriate.

Good call [MENTION=6855114]Helldritch[/MENTION], the Extended Rest should remove all death save failures and exhaustion levels. I'll be updating that.