How Visible To players Should The Rules Be?

[James Gasik]

My level 5 character can only cast level 3 spells no matter what level of the dungeon they are on.

I'm not sure how "level drain" is applied. Do we go one level down in the dungeon, or do I go down one level of spells?

 

[Thomas Shey]

To be fair I think it would be fairly straightforward to build this stuff in at chargen. The ship has sailed on what a level 1 character looks like, but it would be simple to have an optional level 0 starting point that is more like being an apprentice.

Sure. Now look around and see how often that's done.

Like I said, you see discussion of this in games like Hero, but in class and level systems? Its virtually nonexistent, and in some of them its not even clear what a "level 0" character should look like.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I said there was a good chance your character would be a special forces agent. I didn't say it was required. In both games, you can be something other than that. But whatever you are is going to be something where you're considered among the top of your field.



Except you don't accept the term simply because it comes from other games. So yeah... seems relevant.

Yeah, that part above is the problem. I don't want to assume that my PC is at the top of their field.

And we were talking about agendas. If a term is habitually used by proponents of a given style, when they apply it to all styles it is reasonable to suspect an agenda might be at play.

 

[soviet]

Sure. Now look around and see how often that's done.

Like I said, you see discussion of this in games like Hero, but in class and level systems? Its virtually nonexistent, and in some of them its not even clear what a "level 0" character should look like.

I know. That's why I said it would be fairly straightforward to add it in, rather than saying it already exists.

 

[thefutilist]

That phrasing is why I don't like the phrase "scene framing". It strongly implies that narrative point of view, taking me out if the world and into stage direction.

I was thinking abut this objection to scene framing and the suggestion that the name takes you out of the fictional world. I do have a solution though, we could call it The Process of Fictional Ubiety Actualization. Which admittedly does sound cooler than scene-framing.

We’d have conversations like

A: What is your process of fictional ubiety actualization when a player opens a dungeon door?

B: I look at my map of the dungeon.

A: Ah, a particularly veritable technique for actualising the extant.

 

[soviet]

'Actualising the extant' should become the RPG equivalent of 'gleaming the cube'

 

[James Gasik]

I've seen some attempts at level-0 play. Generally you have no class abilities to speak of, can't wear armor, and can only use "peasant weapons".

I liked the version presented in N4: Treasure Hunt back in '86 where you could attempt things a leveled character could do, then locked in your class choice once you completed the adventure.

 

[Micah Sweet]

That's fair. So just, say, Cleric, Paladin, Warlock, Wizard, who can all cast Magic Circle, or maybe also Artificer and Bard who have Glyph of Warding. So that leaves out Druids and Rangers.

EDIT: Oh and the poor Sorcerer, who has less access to magic than the Warlock for reasons.

Yeah, 5e does tend to squash all this stuff together. Too bad. I think you could really do something neat with cultural or ny tradition spell lists.

 

[Campbell]

The problem for this sort of discussion is the word "significantly" is doing heavy lifting in this sentence. And perhaps "core".

Sure. Scope of comparison is a thing. In the scope of area control games Battle For Rokugan and Twilight Imperium vary significantly. In the scope of board games in total they play remarkably similarly.

 

[soviet]

I've seen some attempts at level-0 play. Generally you have no class abilities to speak of, can't wear armor, and can only use "peasant weapons".

I liked the version presented in N4: Treasure Hunt back in '86 where you could attempt things a leveled character could do, then locked in your class choice once you completed the adventure.

It would actually form the basis of a good intro set, for groups of people brand new to the game having come here from Stranger Things or the like.