D&D 5E How We Beat the HD, HotDQ, Spoilers

[Wrathamon]

But why is he not enthusiastic?

When I heard this I thought it was strange also. In our game the DM is running the dragon like the dragon from Dragonslayer, so we didnt get this impression.


The only thing I could think of as to why a dragon would not be interested in helping, is that he feels he is too important to help in this region and rather being doing something more important in the resurrection of his queen.

I don't know if the adventure gives his actually motivation for being not enthusiastic.

 

[Kaychsea]

The book states that "the dragon launches a final assault against the citadel. Frulam Mondath orders the attack, knowing that the adventurers are in the keep at the time." So did Frulam Mondath forget to mention to the dragon that the reason for the attack is to kill the adventurers?

Why would it be. IMO the dragon's job is keeping the garrison holed up so they can get on with gutting the town of loot. Now he knows that the adventurers are in there he wants to keep it that way. As far as he's concerned they are an annoyance, getting in the way of his treasues hunt.

I know that it says "Lennithon accompanied this raid but is not an enthusiastic participant." But why is he not enthusiastic? Aren't they doing this for Tiamat so doesn't he have even more to gain from this fight than the cultists do (since he is a dragon)? I just don't understand the logic behind these things.

Maybe he likes being his own boss or thinks that the cult are on a fool's errand. Maybe he has something he wants to do and this is getting in his way, but on the off chance it works...

Sure there is. If the DM decides to use Cyanwrath's lightning breath (4d10) on a PC it could instantly kill the character (especially if the character was already below their HP maximum). Also, if the PCs are more than 30 feet away, and no one has any healing spells, there's a small chance that the PC will critically fail the first death saving throw and then fail the second one before a PC can reach the character to administer healing.

There is no doubt that the DM can kill the characters at almost any step in this first chapter, dragon breath, death by a dozen kobolds, moody half-dragon. But that's not the point of the thing. I've got my approach planned out so far and while I have every intention of getting them through their night's work they will need to be careful and learn quickly.

 

[Wrathamon]

I agree with Kaychsea, if the DM wanted to kill the players by accident, they're are much easier ways to do it then using the 1/2 dragons breath weapon. Also, it says in the phb you can just knock someone out even after the attack. Why does every attack need to be death?

 

[Xorne]

I just finished running my group though Episode 1. They first rescued the Swift family from 8 kobolds--and quickly realized this isn't 4E when the two beefy toughs (paladin & barbarian) both nearly dropped to 8 attacks. After that they started being a lot more careful and sneaking through the city. Two more fights on the way to the keep, both times with no surprise and ready for a fight, they did fine.

They got to the keep, rested, then cleared the tunnel, went to the sanctuary and took their time, causing a distraction at the back entrance and getting the refugees safely back to the keep. Then the sally port was attacked which they handily repelled, followed by an interrupted short rest and running off to the mill. They thought the mill seemed fishy when they got there, possibly a trap, but their solution was to spring the trap.

This hurt them. A lot. No one died, and it was a bloody battle, but they pulled out a win, barely.

Back to the keep to try and rest, when the dragon attacks. They managed to deal 30 damage in just over 2 rounds, and the dragon left, bellowing "Frulam, I'm not your lapdog, here to do your bidding! Consider my obligation fulfilled!" in Draconic. The party is barely standing at this point, only the barbarian still near full health.

Then Cyanwrath issues his challenge, and the barbarian marches out to face him, with the entire keep thumping their spears into the ground with a thundering rhythm. Cyanwrath dropped him with a critical hit and left them.

Then they finally got a long rest and leveled. I thought it felt like a frantic night with their backs to the wall the entire time, but ultimately I'd say the first episode was a success!

 

[KarinsDad]

Saw a post on g+ about the dragon and 1/2 dragon encounters and maybe some advice on running it from the designers perspective.

Well, that was amusing.

Smart players will declare ready actions while the dragon circles. They can launch their readied attacks as the dragon swoops in, BEFORE the dragon attacks, and with any luck, put it over the 25 damage threshold.

Wait. How exactly do these theoretical smart players KNOW that they are supposed to do 25 points of damage so that such a plan can be conceived by them?

A DM with an eye for drama would also let them dive for cover behind the parapet as part of their reaction, even though it's unclear whether that technically within the RAW.

Hey, if this idea by "smart players" works, then great. If not, a "DM with an eye for drama" could change the rules to protect the PCs.


LMBO

When the designer has to conceive of bizarre thought processes by the players and DMs to justify an encounter, you know it's pretty darn over the top.

 

[Wrathamon]

smart players KNOW

I think this was in reference to readying an action to attack when the dragon is within range. I dont think he though they would have some idea that they needed to hit some magical hp mark.

I tried to get my group to do this very thing ( I thought maybe if we did enough damage in one hit it, then try to intimidate it, it might scare the dragon away) I banged on my shield, and readied a javelin, but no one wanted to, so we ran and hid in the tower.

side note: Player's I game with never want to ready action to synchronous stuff. I can never get player's to do that. Team work? what's that. boo

 

[Desalus]

Why would it be. IMO the dragon's job is keeping the garrison holed up so they can get on with gutting the town of loot. Now he knows that the adventurers are in there he wants to keep it that way. As far as he's concerned they are an annoyance, getting in the way of his treasues hunt.

But the dragon is actively attacking and killing the soldiers so it doesn't seem like simply a ploy to keep the adventurers inside the keep. Also, if the NPCs are an 'annoyance' then why wouldn't the dragon kill them the first chance he gets? If they can be easily killed then why would he not take advantage of the situation?

Maybe he likes being his own boss or thinks that the cult are on a fool's errand. Maybe he has something he wants to do and this is getting in his way, but on the off chance it works...

Well you could come up with a hundred different reasons but that doesn't mean that they make logical sense given the situation. Unfortunately no reason is given in the book so it's all speculation (unless it is explained in a later chapter).

There is no doubt that the DM can kill the characters at almost any step in this first chapter, dragon breath, death by a dozen kobolds, moody half-dragon. But that's not the point of the thing.

I agree with Kaychsea, if the DM wanted to kill the players by accident, they're are much easier ways to do it then using the 1/2 dragons breath weapon.

I completely agree. However, I was pointing out that Steve Winter, when saying "There's no reason Cyanwrath should kill anyone, if the PC's friends are on the ball." is plainly wrong. There are legitimate reasons why Cyanwrath could end up killing the PC, even when the other members of the party are 'on the ball'.

Also, it says in the phb you can just knock someone out even after the attack. Why does every attack need to be death?

That only applies to melee weapons if I'm not mistaken.

 

[KarinsDad]

I think this was in reference to readying an action to attack when the dragon is within range. I dont think he though they would have some idea that they needed to hit some magical hp mark.

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough. A ready action does allow the PC to attack, but it also keeps the PC in view.

A "smart PC" would move out of cover, attack and then move back into cover on his turn.

The Ready action is the stupidest thing to do to a Dragon because the Dragon then just breathes and the PC dies.


When the designer has to tell you what a smart PC would do and it's the dumbest thing possible (based on a normal situation), that's when you know that he's just blowing smoke.

 

[Wrathamon]

That only applies to melee weapons if I'm not mistaken.

half right. Melee attack.


If you know the player only has 2 hps, why would you use the Breath Attack unless you intend to kill the player outright? It's up to the DM, this isnt a boardgame or AI automated encounter. The DM who does this chooses to do this. If they Roll damage (instead of taking the average) for example. If they know the encounter is meant to be more theatrical in nature ... Why play it straight?

I can't see any characters being lvl 1 by the time this occurs, so hitting the negative of their max hps is going to be a rare instance that the DM will know if one hit will drop them to below max. If it's a melee attack they can choose to just KO the player, then be a D and do the curb stomp causing the player to loose a Death save and start dying. If a group of players can't make the DC 10 wis save, or use the cantrip spare the dying, or plead for an npc to help. Then it's fate.

Is this more about We don't want theatrical cinematic encounters? all encounters must be winnable? must be an appropriate threat level but not winnable but believable and don't throw anything to crazy at the player that might be beyond their capabilities to see what they might need to do or we don't want to have to alter or improve an adventure as a DM? all of the above?

I think everything wrong with this adventure so far for me has been DMs not being good DMs, and being a good DM is hard and not every style of encounter design is for everyone.

 

[Kaychsea]

A "smart PC" would move out of cover, attack and then move back into cover on his turn.

I thought you had already decided smart characters are downstairs having a cup of joe?