How well does Iron Heroes mix with D&D?

[No Name]

How difficult would it be to mix the Iron Heroes rules with D&D classes? Could people still play rangers, wizards, monks, etc., but use the low-magic Iron Heroes rules?

I really abhor D&D characters depending on magic items to survive at higher levels, but I like D&D. I don't want to have to rewrite everything. Looking for a solution.

 

[ThirdWizard]

You could theoretically mix them assuming the Iron Heroes PCs didn't recieve magical items nor benefit from spells cast by the D&D PCs. So, you'd need to explain why they aren't able to benefit from magic while still being, for example, injured by a fireball.

 

[ValhallaGH]

How difficult would it be to mix the Iron Heroes rules with D&D classes? Could people still play rangers, wizards, monks, etc., but use the low-magic Iron Heroes rules?

I really abhor D&D characters depending on magic items to survive at higher levels, but I like D&D. I don't want to have to rewrite everything. Looking for a solution.

Are you looking to use D&D classes with IH skills, challenges, stunts and similar portable options? (1)

Or are you looking to use IH classes to play D&D? (2)

Or are you looking to use D&D classes with IH skills, challenges, stunts, similar portable options and feats? (3)

Or are you just wanting a high level character that can assault a dragon and win, even though his best weapon is a masterwork punching dagger? (4)

1 is easy, though it won't remove D&D's reliance upon magic items.

2 can be easy, since all the rules you need are in the IH and Mastering IH books. Simply pick up D&D modules and run with IH rules. Unless you want to keep casters as they are in the PH, in which case converting them over gets ... messy.

3 is a hard one, as D&D classes aren't designed to for the things that IH feats assume. On the other hand, IH feats go a long way towards removing the need for magic items. Not as far as IH feats plus IH class features, but still a long way.

4 is very simple. Run Iron Heroes. In a fight against a (pumped up) Young Adult Red, my 16th level Archer dealt 200+ damage (past DR) using the humble throwing dart. It took about eight or ten rounds but much of that was because the dragon took actions that denied me any opportunity to attack it. If the silly thing hadn't been souped up to over 500 hp, my character would have lived.


A quick note on IH classes: they are fighting styles, not roles. Thus someone with the Thief class may be known far and wide as a mighty ranger; he happens to be a very skillful ranger with lots of interaction ability. A Weapon Master may also be known as a ranger, one that is especially deadly with his {favored weapon}. An Archer ranger is a mighty bowman (or crossbowman, or knife thrower, or dart thrower, or javelineer) in addition to a master of the wildlands.
A Berzerker character may be known as a skilled and deadly monk that fights like water, flowing into an overwhelming tummult that smashes aside all opposition. And so forth.

So yes, people can still play rangers, monks and wizards in IH, they will just be different from most D&D rangers, monks and wizards.

I hope this was helpful.

 

[frankthedm]

CONVERSION RULES
Converting the Iron Heroes rules to use in other games is relatively
simple using the guidelines that follow.
CHARACTERS
Use the Iron Heroes character classes with a few important
cautions, as outlined below.
• Do not convert the arcanist class to other systems
that have their own magic rules, as the arcanist is
at a disadvantage compared to such classes.
• Do not convert the man-at-arms to games that use
the fighter class.
• Do not convert the thief to games that use the rogue
class.
• Do not convert the berserker in games that use the
barbarian.
These last three classes—man-at-arms, thief, and berserker—
are essentially Iron Heroes versions of the fighter, rogue, and
barbarian, respectively. You should use one or the other. Use
both only if you feel comfortable with classes that offer
almost identical abilities.
Tokens: For any ability that uses tokens, double the token
cost needed to activate the ability if you plan on giving Iron
Heroes characters the standard array of magic items. In this
case, magic items give the characters such useful tools, the
token abilities become too powerful when combined with them.
Certain Iron Heroes classes do not use token pools. Two of
them, the man-at-arms and thief, should not be a problem, as
they are not recommended for conversion (use the fighter
and rogue instead). The harrier, however, is a special case.
Halve the bonuses the harrier gains from its combat speed,
mobile assault, and mobile defense abilities. In the case of
mobile defense, you end up having to divide the squares
moved by 4 to determine the harrier's defense (or AC) bonus.

You could theoretically mix them assuming the Iron Heroes PCs didn't recieve magical items nor benefit from spells cast by the D&D PCs. So, you'd need to explain why they aren't able to benefit from magic while still being, for example, injured by a fireball.

Yep. That is the main balance issue. Irom heroes have character abilities that make up for not having buffing spells and magical items for every slot. They are assumed to be Power Attacking through DR, not overcoming through the proper material / enchantment.

Also Iron heoes seem slightly stronger that most D&D Characters, notably in the first few levels as they do have several tricks most D&D characters have to wait a few levels for to afford the gear to pull said tricks. They also basicly have double thier daily HP, but can only use half of it at once.

This topic hasa good deal of value to me since I would like to run an Iron Heroes: Dark*Sun game soon[ish]

 

[Capellan]

I'm really not sure what the question is, here.

Is it "Can I play D&D without lots of magic items?" In which case the answer is yes, but you'll need to tone down the challenges your PCs face.

Or is it "Are the Iron Heroes classes balanced with D&D classes?" in which case the answer is not unless the D&D guys get access to magical items.

Or is it "Can I use the D&D classes with some of IH's new rules concepts?" (better feats, stunts, zones). In which case, sure you can ... but the D&D characters will still be weaker than they would be if they had magical items, unless you implement enough of IH to balance things (there are guidelines in the IH book for this).

Or is it something else again?

 

[ThirdWizard]

Hmm my initial reading was asking if he could pay Iron Heroes, but just throw the D&D PC classes into the mix along with the Iron Heroes classes. After considering it, though, I guess that's not what he's asking, because the D&D classes need the magical items to operate (which is something he is trying to do away with).

The question, I suppose, that needs to be answered is why use the D&D classes at all?

 

[ruleslawyer]

I'm going to hazard a guess that the OP wants to go with the IH philosophy of stripping out magical buffs while keeping the D&D classes.

[see updated suggestion below.]

 

[ValhallaGH]

The bard would be convertible (and probably pretty interesting!), although a feat mastery (taken by a rogue, most likely) would probably cover it.

I rebuilt a D&D bard of mine as an IH Man At Arms. Wow, did that ever work out well. More skillful, more interesting, and though he lost his casting and wand of Cure Light I suspect that he'd be even more useful and effective in play.

Thanks to the new uses of Perform, he now has infinite uses of Bardic Music each day.

Too bad that campaign in on hiatus.

 

[No Name]

I really need to work on my writing skills. It was clear to me when I wrote it.

Ruleslawyer got it right - D&D classes with IH philosophy. I'm looking for ways to beef up characters with feats, skills, etc., in order to replace magic item dependency.

 

[Jackmojo]

I would go with an even more upgunned version of the 'its you not your gear' houserule wizards posted.

Something along the lines of this:

+2 to a single attribute on each even level
1 feat each level
All classes BAB increases by one step (putting full BAB classes at Iron Heroes levels)
Double skill points both at creation and per level
At 1st and then each 3rd level (a.k.a. the normal feat levels)Player can choose 2 skills, these gain an inherant +3 bonus
Extensive use of Action points (with a better recovery method for them so they can be used more freely)
Perhaps expand on racial abilities some ( I like to double all racial modifiers, e.g. Humans get two feats and +2 skills per level, Halflings get +4 dex, -4 Str and +2 to all saves, etc...)
Use a higher base point value for Character creation (30+ in point buy I would say)


Restrictions:

No Non-consumeable Item creation feats (except perhaps allow some use of permanancy, as thats still them and not gear) and I might even ban craft wand/staffs


You can also increase some of the class features but that tends to be more work.

Jack