D&D General How well does mixing 5es in one table work?

[Distracted DM]

I don't understand why people seem to think this

the power floor is much higher.

There's your answer
The floor being much higher is a big deal for everyone that doesn't spend time on optimization forums.

 

[DrJawaPhD]

There's your answer
The floor being much higher is a big deal for everyone that doesn't spend time on optimization forums.

Yeah I guess I can totally understand that with the caveat of "at tables that don't optimize, 2024 characters are more powerful" (that's definitely true), but everyone states this as some blanket statement when it's so far from true if you are optimizing.

And then what I really don't get is that people (not necessarily your post) often use it as a complaint about power creep, things being easier now, harder to challenge players, etc. If you aren't optimizing anything then who cares about the power level or difficulty? The real power increase / challenge decrease comes from using 2014 rules and sticking the most overpowered busted builds, which yeah can get boring so I'm a huge fan of the power nerfs in 2024 rules.

 

[DEFCON 1]

And then what I really don't get is that people (not necessarily your post) often use it as a complaint about power creep, things being easier now, harder to challenge players, etc.

Some people complain about that stuff because they don't want to change how they themselves GM in relation to the game they are playing, they want the game to be changed such that they can GM as they always have and not have to do any work themselves.

People complain about the designers of D&D being lazy with their decisions... I find that oftentimes its the player base themselves that are truly the lazy ones.

 

[TwoSix]

I let 2014, 2024 and a ton of 3pp mix freely at all my tables without any sort of issues. I have a PC with a mix of a 2014 subclass with a 3pp subclass and a mix of 2014 and 2024 spells and feats.

I think the only time we ever had an issue crop up was a few weeks ago when a newer player cast sleep and asked for Wisdom saves, when the rest of were all used to the hit point mechanic of 2014 sleep and were quite confused till we looked it up. So I just asked the player which version he preferred, he kept the 2024 version, and now he just says "I cast sleep 2.0". Problem solved.

 

[TwoSix]

We play mixed games all the time. The key to this is do not use anything from 2014 that was reprinted, but feel free to use everything that was not reprinted.

So use the 2014 version of Cause Fear and the 2024 version of Tasha's Hideous Laughter.

Don't use the 2014 classes, but you can use the subclasses that were not reprinted (giving a subclass at level 3 for Clerics, Wizards, Warlocks and Sorcerers).

So if you are playing an Echo Knight you would use the Fighter from 2024 and the Echo Knight subclass from 2014.

If you are playing a Champion on the other hand use both class and subclass from 2024.

That's....not a mix. That's just using 2024 without restricting it to 2024+ books only.

That's exactly the sort of tight restriction I would specifically advocate against.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

I'm in a group that lets players choose 2014 or 2024 content (with most non-class content using the changed 2024 versions).

There have been a lot of instances where I've wanted to make a character only to discover that some change to a 2024 feat or spell sidelines the build I wanted to make, or where I realized that making a 2014 character would just be way weaker than someone else playing a 2024 character due to general power-creep, even if the 2024 class lost out on features that I wanted to make use of.

A lot depends on the class and level of optimisation of you and your group. For example the general power of Fighters went up, but a heavily optimised 2014 fighter would probably still beat a heavily optimised 2024 fighter simply because some of the top-end stuff has been reduced.

Some rules interactions that can lead to interesting characters are no more, but there are some new ones that might spark different inspiration.

 

[eclair~]

There's your answer
The floor being much higher is a big deal for everyone that doesn't spend time on optimization forums.

It's less that the floor is higher and more than the Right Choices require much less investment. This is also coupled with many instances where a nerfed formerly-strong option has another choice that's just as strong if not stronger.

Compared to 2014, a sword-and-board Fighter using a Sap or Slow weapon has gotten far less of a power boost than a Fighter using a two-weapon Vex/Nick build. 2024 Dual Wielder gives far more of a benefit than 2024 Shield Master. 2014 Heavy Weapon Master required multiple character choices to optimize, while 2024 Heavy Weapon Master is equally effective for just about any character.

An average two-hander user in 2014 compared to a non-optimized two-hander user with GWM in 2014 isn't actually that far behind, because a great deal of 2014 GWM optimization is offsetting the attack roll penalty. A 2024 two-hander user with GWM is just significantly ahead of any non-GWM user by default, and all the more so if the GWM user makes the Right Choice for weapon mastery (Cleave) than the other character.

And many 2024 characters will do much more consistent damage with a Dual Wielder build than with a 2014 GWM/PAM build—on top of being free to take Defensive Duelist to have better melee defenses than even a shield-using character.

 

[djotaku]

I mix Black Flag, both WotC 5es and some A5e at my table regularly.
My players have no idea.

PCs can be built using one main rule set with swaps of equal elements (Feats/Talents) or using a class from one system built the nature & nurture from another.

It's fine. the 5e ecosystem is fungible and fun.

that's really awesome to hear!

 

[djotaku]

Indeed, I had a 1st to 20th level 3x5e game where we used a mix of Level Up Advanced 5e, D&D 2024, and D&D 2014. It went fine. We used just the core books so I didn't have a million subclasses come in.

I shared my experiences here:


If I were doing it again, I'd have one core set of rules at the table so we didn't have a mix of potion drinking rules and the like. I don't think its the ideal way to play but you sure can mix up a lot of subsystems from various 5es in one game – Luck and Doom from TOV, Safe Havens and Supply from A5e and so on.

Awesome. Loaded it into another tab to watch later while I eat my lunch

 

[djotaku]

I would really like an idea to play at one table as a 2024 Monk with ToV Monk and A5e Adept, but I don't see people willing to join that game

I might try that as a one-shot. It's a fun, different spin on the old "Oops all ____"