How well would the group fare against...

[Kzach]

I'm trying to foretell the future and write up an encounter for the end-boss of a heroic tier campaign. I've experienced 4e as a player and DM from a number of perspectives so far, but I'm still finding it a bit difficult to judge what would be a truly challenging encounter.

So I thought I'd try and get some opinions on the following set-up.

Basically, all roads lead back to this guy so eventually they'll confront him. The political situation means that the Kingdom has no power in the lands in and around his barony. So the PC's will be coming with a small army to get them to the castle but basically they have to get into themselves into his castle, fight their way too him, and then fight him.

They know that he's not human, and that he has shapeshifting powers, and is a troll. So they know his weaknesses and should be coming fairly prepared. They'll be close to 11th-level by the time they confront him and should tick over to 11th after defeating him. There are also only four PC's.

The battle I envisage is one where he is in his 'normal' human form and he is surrounded by a bunch of guards. In this scenario, he's a 10th-level elite and the fight should be around roughly 2,500xp.

Assuming the PC's kill off the rabble before downing him, he then transforms into his real form, that of a monstrous troll that is over 1,600 years old, and really pissed off. I'm thinking he'll be a 14th-level solo monster.

Individually, I'm pretty sure the group could handle the encounters. But one straight after the other is something I'm not so sure of.

 

[Pistonrager]

I wouldn't have him turn into a solo, make him an elite(for the extra hp), a few special tricks when he's bloodied, and a healing surge.

Oh, and be sure to give him a quick way out, for future harassment of the PC's.


If he's the obvious boss, chances are the Pc's will ignore everything else in the room to kill him. Lot's of guards and extra HP, will stop him from being killed too quickly, and the when bloodied stuff will be a good "2nd form" for him.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Have you seen thunderspire labyrinth? There is a new monster in there which dramatically changes form and capabilities when bloodied (not giving any spoilers away). That might be a good model to follow for this boss if you want inspiration for mechanics.

 

[Kzach]

Have you seen thunderspire labyrinth? There is a new monster in there which dramatically changes form and capabilities when bloodied (not giving any spoilers away). That might be a good model to follow for this boss if you want inspiration for mechanics.

Hmm... bloodied, yes, actually that's probably the better route to go.

And as for him getting away, it's not really an option. This is the end boss, it's obvious he's the end boss, the PC's have specifically been assigned to kill him. If he gets away, they've failed.

 

[Jack99]

2500 is too low based on my experience.

Assuming 4 players, 10th level, make it a 3000-4000 xp encounter. The spread is given to accomodate just how good your players are.

Making him elite instead of solo is not a bad idea, but unless you want him ripped to pieces as soon as his lackeys are gone, make him 3-4 levels higher than the players, ie level 13 or 14.

Level 14 elite (2000 xp), leaving 1-2000 for his guards. Maybe 2 level 10 standard monsters (1k total) and 4 level 10 minions (500 xp)

Cheers

EDIT: I didn't read all of your post apparently (lol)

In this case I think you have it right. The first encounter is only +1 (standard difficulty), and they should thus still have plenty of juice left for the last combat. Of course, if they know that this is the "final battle" (or in this case think so) they might burn many of their dailies. Of course, this will just teach them a lesson.

Anyway, a lvl 14 solo might be alot, and too long. I would advice against it, unless your players like very long fights. Instead, consider making him lvl 10 or 11 solo, and have some reinforcements arrive, to set the second encounter value at what a lvl 14 solo would be. Incidently, its the same 4k that I mention in the first part of my post..

 

[Jack99]

Actually, re-reading your post, now that me daughter has gone to bed (no distractions), what you are describing is one encounter, now two encounters, if going by the rules. That would make it a 7500 xp encounter, which is somewhere inbetween a level 17 and 18 encounter for 4 characters. That will surely kill them, and if it doesn't it will be an insanely long and drawn out fight. Of course, you are as DM allowed to rule it is two seperate encounters, and thus their encounter powers reset when it is killed the first time.

If you want to stick with the one encounter format, I would probably make him a lvl 10 elite with 4 level 10 minions and 1 lvl 10 standard monster (2500 xp) and in the second form, a lvl 11 solo (3000 xp).

This should still make for a very hard encounter (total 5500 or almost level 16).

Cheers, and good luck

 

[Kzach]

Cheers, and good luck

Thanks.

Yeah, I want it to be all one combat. There will be no 5 minute breaks between each scenario.

The bloodied idea I like, but it also confuses things. If he's level 10 elite until bloodied, and then level 10 solo, what XP and difficulty is the encounter?

Gonna have to put a lot more thought into this one... thought, and Worldworks!

 

[nogray]

Some ideas for your consideration.

I would create and budget him as a level 10 (or so) solo. (Use minions and regular soldiers of levels 6-10 to round out the xp budget to the desired difficulty.) Unlike most creatures, however, make his bloodied value something other than 1/2 hit points (like, say, at 3/4 hit points). His bloodied state triggers a transformation (duration: until the end of the encounter or fully healed), probably giving him regeneration and a few other abilities. He might also be only able to use his action points while bloodied. It might also be worth it to give him "human form" powers (I'm thinking of leader-like powers) that are not usable while bloodied / transformed. (One of the human form powers could be a "second wind" that restores 25 hit points or so and inspires his underlings.)

You might also be able to achieve a similar effect by giving him a specific hitpoint threshold that triggers his transformation, if you want to avoid tying his powers to being bloodied. Tie many of the above tricks (gaining some powers and losing others) to "transformed," rather than "bloodied."

In this case, you might even get really tricky and give him multiple stages. His original human form could have a "bloodied" state at the half-way point to transforming, then he transforms, becoming an unbloodied (is that a word?) troll. For example, if he has 400 total hit points (pretty close to correct for a 10th level solo, if memory serves), his progression would go like this: 400-351 unbloodied human; 350-301 bloodied human; 300-151 unbloodied troll (stays in troll form until fully healed, so he doesn't flip back and forth); and finally 150-1, bloodied troll. Adjust the numbers / thresholds / percents to your taste, of course.

Does that seem like an interesting battle? It definitely sounds different from any of the monsters I've read through, and your players would have an interesting moment or two when you announce "bloodied" at 50 hit points of damage, followed by a transformation scene like the Bug from Men in Black removing his "Edgar suit" when they "finish off" the human form.