How widespread is the arcane magic/divine magic divisions in RPGs?

Thanks for the replies--I knew that there were some games which lacked the arcane/divine distinction, but I couldn't recall them all.

I do have another question for y'all, as well: In these systems, does the type of magic used influence what a practictioner can/can't use (like weapons, armor, etc.)?
 

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Not in Gurps (the system I am using). Well, not unless you rule that it does. Mages in my campaign regular wear leather cuirass armor if they are going out in the wilds doing something dangerous. Most mages or wizards (I have 2 major types of spellcasters in my campaign) don't wear too much armor because it is heavy. Doesn't matter as much if you can fling fire if you always go last and they stick you before you do.

As for weapons, many of the mages and wizards are also accomplished swordsmen (or macemen, or axemen, etc). They usually carry a weapon appropriate to their training. Wizards in my campaign are a special case, as a good portion of their power depends on their "wizard's staff", most of them are trained in quarterstaff use.
 
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In Midgard there is not. Most magic is hindered by worn metal armor (big penalty on casting, doesn't make it impossible, tho, just less likely to succeed), but that's the same for every spellcaster (IIRC). Unlike spells, there is also no limit for what skills (weapons are skills, too) anyone can learn at all (non-spellcasters can even learn to cast spells, but that is hideously expensive to get there). The only "limits" on weapons come from religious or cultural beliefs.

However, the cost to learn skills or spells are very different according to your character type (that's the biggest difference between the characters, apart from the distinction between spellcasters and non-spellcasters, how much everything costs to improve, that and spellcasters have lower vitality (same wounds, tho - Midgard has a system similar to VP/WP, probably one of the first, if not the first, system to make this difference, it's a lot easier to hit for wound damage, compared to d20 systems, however, since you do not have to do a critical hit, every hit has a chance to do wound damage (and no, you don't have a lot of wounds at all ;)), while criticals are really, really bad)).

Bye
Thanee
 
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AFGNCAAP said:
I do have another question for y'all, as well: In these systems, does the type of magic used influence what a practictioner can/can't use (like weapons, armor, etc.)?
Why would it? That wouldn't make much sense, now would it?

:D
 

Hmm... thinking through the games I can recall playing...

Drakar och Demoner: Swedish BRP-derivate. It differs a bit from edition to edition here. The first version I played was v2, in which there was no such thing as "divine magic." There was just magic, and every spell was a separate skill. Then an expansion called Expert came around, which added the concept of magic schools - each spell was still a separate skill, but you also needed a certain level of skill in the associated school to learn a spell (e.g. in order to learn Animate Dead, you needed a 12 in Necromancy) - this created distinction between various types of magic, but no arcane/divine division. Version 3 was basically the same as 2, and versions 4 and 5 were pretty much the same as v2/3 + Expert, ruleswise. As for weapon/armor restrictions, they've been around in various strengths over the years: in v2/3/Expert, wizards were limited in how high they could get in any skill based on Dex (like weapon skills), and couldn't cast spells if touching iron. In v4, the skill limit disappeared, but the iron limit remained. In v5, the iron limit disappeared too. Then, in version 6, DoD became a bit more class-based, with both a "wizard" and a "priest" class, both using magic but in very different ways. It also had weapon/armor restrictions for classes, and I'm pretty sure the wizard class is more heavily restricted than the priest class. Both classes have subclasses that increase your martial abilities at the expense of magic ("swordmage" and "holy warrior"). There's a revised edition of DoD 6 out, but I haven't checked that one out.

Rolemaster: In Rolemaster, there are three kinds of magic, Essence (basically arcane), Channeling (basically divine), and Mentalism (neither). Each of the types of magic has several classes dedicated to its use, both "pure" spellcasters and "semi" (mixing magic with fighting, like the ranger or paladin in D&D), as well as "hybrid" casters (mixing two types of magic). There's also Arcane magic, which is a mix of all three types, which is powerful but dangerous. There are no hard and fast limits on weapons and armor, but there are penalties. First, the pure spellcaster professions tend to stink at increasing weapon skills (a fighter can increase weapon skills in his best group two ranks for 4 skill points, and most of the others cost something like 2 points for one rank or 7 for two - a pure spellcaster usually has a cost of 9 points for one rank in their best group and 20 per rank in any other). Second, wearing armor and carrying stuff gives penalties to spellcasting - Essence gets penalties for any matter over a small base allowance and heavy penalties for armor, Channeling gets penalties for non-organic matter, and Mentalism only gets penalties for helms.

Earthdawn: Well, every PC is a magic-user of some sort, but mostly in the form of using magic to supercharge skills. There are four types of spellcasters however: Elementalists, Illusionists, Nethermancers, and Wizards. Neither one has any particularly religious bent. The setting has something called Questors, which is kind of like a priest, except it's more of an add-on to whatever class you already have. There are no limitations on spellcasters using weapons or armor, but I think they're sort of discouraged by not having the Melee/Missile weapons talent for the most part (though they could pick up mundane weapon skills).

Arcana Unearthed: A d20 variant that isn't D&D. There's no distinction between arcane and divine magic, however there is a distinction between Simple, Complex and Exotic spells. All spell-casting classes (Mageblade, Runethane, Magister, Witch, Greenbond) have access to all Simple spells. Magisters also have access to all Complex spells, Witches eventually gain access to all Complex spells of a certain type (e.g. a sea witch gains access to all Water spells), and a Greenbond gets all Complex and Exotic spells that deal with plants or positive energy. You can use feats to get access to spells you normally wouldn't have - one feat either improves your access to a type of spells by one level (simple->complex->exotic), gives you all complex spells at one spell level, or a single exotic spell. As for weapons and armor, I think Greenbonds and Mageblades can use their spells pretty well in armor, while Runethanes, Magisters and Witches have to deal with Arcane Spell Failure.

TORG: Uses two completely different systems for magic and miracles. Magic is just a matter of the spell-caster having the right skills and knowing the spell, while miracles require faith (and it helps having many faithful helping).

Ars Magica: Has a very comprehensive and powerful magic system, and a teeny tiny bit of rules for miracles. No direct problem for either to wear armor, but wizards generally don't want to because it tires them, and that makes it harder to cast spells (plus it leaves less fatigue levels to use to power spells).

Exalted: Mortal thaumaturges can get some minor arcane-type magical abilities, or they can plead with and/or bind minor gods, demons or elementals to do their bidding (which can be considered a type of divine magic). There are rules for praying to a god and see if there's any response. However, Exalted (the kind of people you're assumed to be playing) don't need to bother with such trivialities, and can instead use Charms (skill-enhancing magic that can be quite impressive, like calming a rioting mob with a word) or even Sorcery (really powerful magic that can devastate small armies, or at higher levels, raze cities).
 

Ars Magica has various "forces" (not a game term) that places can have and to which people can be affiliated.

Mundane, by default. Average in everything.
Hermetic, makes hermetic magic easier to cast.
Faerie, makes hermetic magic a bit easier but also less predictable.
Infernal, makes hermetic magic harder.
Divine, makes hermetic magic harder.
Rationnal, makes hermetic magic a lot harder, and has no associated type of magic.
Miscellaneous other types of magic (kabbalah, runic, whatever) would have their own auras.
 

In previous incarnations of the Tekumel game, only the priesthoods had magic. But, it was more of an arcane flavor. They didn't channel the power of the gods, but certain spells are credited as having been taught by the servants of the gods.

Baron Opal
 

Conaill said:
GURPS: no arcane/divine distinction. You either have magical aptitude or you don't.

It's more complicated than that. There is also "ritual magic", which does not use the Magical Aptitude advantage at all. Likewise, any of the "power" systems in GURPS can be used as "magic", all with their own rules.

Hero system has no built-in divisions at all.

RuneQuest originally had two kinds of magic, "battle magic" and "rune magic". Shamans in old RuneQuest were battle magic specialists who had access to a bit of Rune Magic. Third edition RuneQuest turned battle magic into "spirit magic" and rune magic into "divine magic" and added "sorcery", which was often atheist (the most extreme sorcerous peoples were innately immortal and completely atheist, but sex meant death for them, other sorcerous cultures treated sorcery as the only true "divine" magic and all other forms of magic were considered demonic), but there were magicians who combined sorcery and divine magic (the Stygians), and the Lunars broke all the rules, being able to use sorcerous modifications on their spirit magic. However, there was no hard-and-fast "effect" division. One could heal, cast fire, revive the dead, summon any sort of creature, etc. with any of the types of magic. "Pure" cultures used only one kind of magic, as "mixing" was a form of "breaking the rules" of the cosmos, but the mixers ended up being more powerful (except in comparison to the Brithini--the ultra-sorcerers who considered all other cultures to actually be a form of baboon, more or less, but the Brithini were extreme isolationists).

Old (1st and 2nd edition) Chivalry and Sorcery was more complicated.

The thing is D&D came first, so the majority of games have simply assumed the original D&D division.
 

With Mythus the simple explanation is, there is no distinction. Everybody learns their Castings from a book, and casts using personal and environmental magical energy.

However...

In the case of Priestcraft Castings the prospective caster must first dedicate himself to a particular Ethos (Sunlight, Moonlight, Balance, Shadowy Darkness, and Gloomy Darkness from (mostly) good to (mostly) bad), then to a deity of that Ethos within his native pantheon. Thus a Hibernian dedicating himself to Gloomy Darkness would choose to serve Morrigan and not Set. With that done he can use the Castings of his Ethos, but not those of any other Ethos. Thus our priest of Morrigan would be barred from using any Castings of the Ethos of Moonlight for instance.

In the case of Witchcraft and Sorcery Casting the subject must first make a Pact With Evil. Each such pact is exclusive. Which means one cannot have a pact for both Witchcraft and Sorcery. In addition, the more the subject promises to do for and on behalf of evil , the more magical energy that is made available to him. This, and Oaths (described below) are the only cases where a caster cans magical energy from any source outside himself and the immediate environment.

Oaths are agreements between the subject and a supernatural or deital party where the subject agrees to serve the latter, in return for which the latter provide extra magical energy. Unlike Pacts, Oaths usually have more reasonable conditions, can be made with a party of most any Ethos, and not carry the onerous penalties of Pact failure. Usually loss of the extra energy instead of immediate death and damnation.

Finally, there is Full Practice. With Full Practice the subject who meets the strenuous requirements gains a multiplier to one source of magical energy, and finds casting easier. As presented in the Mythus Magick book there are only two types of Full Practitioner, the Priest (Priestcrafting) and the Mage (Dweomercrafting). But in conversations (via various media) with one Col. Pladoh (who wrote the game) he did reveal that it was possible for Spellsingers (Spellsinging being a school of magic) from a certain culture to gain the position of Full Practitioners if they met certain requirements. But that would be revealed in a later Mythus supplement.

So other than the fact certain schools or ethoi are banned for one reason or another, there really is no distinction made between the different schools and ethoi.
 

Good to see some fellow RuneQuesters here!

3rd Edition RQ also had Ritual Magic, usable by practitioners of any sort of magic. basically it consisted of three skills - Ceremony, Summon and Enchant, used with specific ritual spell (Summon Ancestor, Armouring Enchantment etc.) to produce various effects.

As far as armour is concerned, encumberance decreases the chance to use any magical skill, but in practice it would affect Divine Magic the least, since this has a base 100% chance to cast, whereas as Spirit and Sorcery Magic would have a lower chance.

It perhaps requires elucidation that the three magic types had different underlying mechanics.

Spirit Magic tend to be simple buffing spells (for the main part), use magic points and have a flat chance of casting depending on the character's Power characteristic.

Divine Magic cost Power to learn in the first place, but had more powerful effects. Often boosted with magic points when cast, but not always. Casting is practically automatic, but unless you are a priest you only have the spell "on loan" from the deity and so it is effectively single-use.

Sorcery is the only magic that has metamagic skills, allowing the caster to alter the range and duration, and mix spells together in a single casting. It's generally considered, however, that the RQ3 sorcery was a broken system. Each spell and metamagic skill was a seperate skill and sorcerers started with such low scores in them as to be useless. Furthermore, to get a worthwhile effect from a sorcery spell tended to mean using many more magic points than spirit or divine.
 

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