How would YOU change Shadowdark?

[Lakesidefantasy]

Im not smitten by the obsession with illumination.

Its fine for crypts etc. but if dwarves, goblins, and orcs etc. can’t see in the dark then surely many sorts of dungeons will be quite well lit by the efforts of its denizens.

Yes indeed, humanoid monsters are not darkness adapted so one would expect their lairs to be lit.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Production quality. Black & White is classic, but c'mon. It's the 21st century. Hire artists who can color

Completely disagree.

Not only do the black & white art, the writing, and the rules themselves all complement each other perfectly, but the implication that color is somehow inherently superior to black and white, and that the use of the latter equates to "low production quality" is just...just...well, $%#* I don't even know how to respond to that.

I mean, it's a bit like looking at modern architecture and calling it "low production quality" because it lacks marble columns and gold leaf.

EDIT: You, of course, are free to prefer art with color. But it's a bit like your opinion about Vancian magic. It's just an opinion.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Im not smitten by the obsession with illumination.

Its fine for crypts etc. but if dwarves, goblins, and orcs etc. can’t see in the dark then surely many sorts of dungeons will be quite well lit by the efforts of its denizens.

Yes, exactly. Goblins, orcs, and the like can't see in the dark, so they will have some kind of illumination.

But that slithering, gurgling, unnamed monstrosity? Yeah, it can see just fine.

And you should be very afraid.

 

[Fenris-77]

People who want to complain about other peoples' budget for buying art should maybe just go buy it themselves, or even write something themselves, instead complaining about what other people are buying. Most people write RPG stuff as a hobby, not as a job, and colour art in many cases will cost more than they are reasonably going to make back on an indy release. A little perspective goes a long way here.

 

[Bill Zebub]

People who want to complain about other peoples' budget for buying art should maybe just go buy it themselves, or even write something themselves, instead complaining about what other people are buying. Most people write RPG stuff as a hobby, not as a job, and colour art in many cases will cost more than they are reasonably going to make back on an indy release. A little perspective goes a long way here.

That is all true. AND I don't think this was a budget decision. Kelsey does use color. Her Skyhorn Reach modules, for example, use lots of color.

The black & white fits the Shadowdark aesthetic perfectly.

I honestly would be very very disappointed if Kelsey switched to color art for the books.

 

[Fenris-77]

That is all true. AND I don't think this was a budget decision. Kelsey does use color. Her Skyhorn Reach modules, for example, use lots of color.

The black & white fits the Shadowdark aesthetic perfectly.

I honestly would be very very disappointed if Kelsey switched to color art for the books.

Yeah, the Shadowdark aesthetic is fine IMO. I was speaking more generally. The B&W format is a real boon to 3PP desingers though, as are the free art and layout assets they've made available.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Im not smitten by the obsession with illumination.

Its fine for crypts etc. but if dwarves, goblins, and orcs etc. can’t see in the dark then surely many sorts of dungeons will be quite well lit by the efforts of its denizens.

In many cases, the places explored in Shadowdark dungeon crawls are no longer operated by their builders, or their builders aren't operating at anything like full capacity any more.

And darkness-dwelling monsters in Shadowdark can see in the dark, so even if there are torches and lanterns around (and there probably should be in many cases), they won't be using them and the people who are stand out as vulnerable outsiders to everyone else.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

People who want to complain about other peoples' budget for buying art should maybe just go buy it themselves, or even write something themselves, instead complaining about what other people are buying. Most people write RPG stuff as a hobby, not as a job, and colour art in many cases will cost more than they are reasonably going to make back on an indy release. A little perspective goes a long way here.

Yeah, I used all public domain art on my Shadowdark release except for the cover, which I paid for. It was a pre-existing piece that I was just paying for non-exclusive rights to and it was a "wait, how much" purchase.* Happily, sales have since covered the cost but it was a real eye-opener.

I'm honestly not sure how hobby-pro people afford professional art in their works without using Kickstarter to raise funds to pay for it.

* The price for the individual piece was definitely fair, but when multiplying that out by the amount of art seen in some products, it quickly gets way, way up there, to the point that I suspect a lot of fanpro products are money losers and the person's hobby is just creating works that they want to see in the world and won't actually ever break even, much less make a profit.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Goblins, orcs, and the like can't see in the dark, so they will have some kind of illumination.

Maybe.

This isn't stated explicitly in the book and Kelsey has said this is a DM decision.

Shadowdark isn't 3E where all of the PCs and NPCs work identically. The residents of the dark places in the world are different. And if you want your goblins and orcs in your Moria-style megadungeon to not use torches, because they've been changed by the darkness, go nuts.

Shadowdark isn't a prescriptive type of game.

 

[Lakesidefantasy]

It was funny when we were first making characters for Shadowdark and we realized that you could play a goblin that can't see in the dark fighting goblins that can see in the dark. However, it's easy to overlook but on page 189 it does say that non-humanoid creatures are adapted to living in the dark. So, monster goblins can't see in the dark just like Player Character goblins can't see in the dark.