How would YOU change Shadowdark?

[Nightfly]

In Black Hack's magic system, the first attempt at casting a spell always succeeds, then you roll after to see if you retain it. The catch is that subsequent roll-to-retain rolls for the same spell are made at disadvantage.

I haven't tested that in Shadowdark but it seems like it could be good. You always get one cast of a given spell, often get two, rarely get three or more. I do worry that it might make casters a little too good, especially at higher levels. Shadowdark isn't balanced around automatically successful spells. It might be necessary to have players know fewer spells -- Black Hack casters only know one spell per level.

 

[Retros_x]

I am a broken record on this, but presentation. It would be great if one box had all the character classes and player facing info.

What do you mean. Its all in the book. Complaining about expanded content not being in the book its weird, because these are expansions and naturally they are not in the start book. But that is the same for every game, SD is no different here?

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

I just got Shadowdark so just going off a read I'd probably add in critical hits from DCC, and maybe Spellburn. Its got potential shenanigans on a failed spell roll which I like as I'm a bit tired of the traditional D&D spell mechanics.

 

[Bill Zebub]

In Black Hack's magic system, the first attempt at casting a spell always succeeds, then you roll after to see if you retain it. The catch is that subsequent roll-to-retain rolls for the same spell are made at disadvantage.

I haven't tested that in Shadowdark but it seems like it could be good. You always get one cast of a given spell, often get two, rarely get three or more. I do worry that it might make casters a little too good, especially at higher levels. Shadowdark isn't balanced around automatically successful spells. It might be necessary to have players know fewer spells -- Black Hack casters only know one spell per level.

Point: I find that really interesting, because the thing I don't like about @SlyFlourish 's solution is that the first cast each day, for each spell, is a special case that needs to be remembered/tracked. It just doesn't feel elegant to me. But by rolling after the cast, then all casts are the treated the same.

Counterpoint: BUT...that means, really, that all casts succeed, so the player never has any doubt when deciding to use a spell. And I feel like that certainty is too big of a change.

 

[Bill Zebub]

I just re-read @SlyFlourish's rule on page 1 of this thread. It's that you don't lose the spell on a failed check until it has been successfully cast at least once. So you might fail 10 times in a row without losing it. Then you succeed once, and the next time you fail you lose it.

Thus you never have certainty of cast, you only know that you will get at least one successful cast per day.

(Personally I don't have any issue with RAW, but for those who find it too punitive it's an interesting thing to think about.)

 

[Nightfly]

Counterpoint: BUT...that means, really, that all casts succeed, so the player never has any doubt when deciding to use a spell. And I feel like that certainty is too big of a change.

Yes, I tend to agree. House rules that are contrary to the basic spirit of the game are probably a bad idea.

A possible alternative would be to make the first attempt at casting have advantage, second attempt normal, all subsequent attempts at disadvantage. That keeps the unpredictable element but still makes it less likely that you completely whiff on a spell, but also makes it less likely you get to cast it multiple times, which strikes me as a desirable goal.

Two potential problems: it creates some bookkeeping (especially at higher levels) which isn't inline with Shadowdark's minimalism, and I'm not sure how to mesh it with Magic Missile (which always rolls with advantage).

 

[Lakesidefantasy]

Maybe we're trying to add a modern idea to something that is trying to be less modern. Maybe the modern idea is that a Player should always get to do something on their turn. Maybe Shadowdark doesn't care. Maybe sometimes your turn comes up, you roll the dice, and nothing happens. Fighters get gyped like this all the time. Of course it's the wizards crying foul again.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Yes, I tend to agree. House rules that are contrary to the basic spirit of the game are probably a bad idea.

A possible alternative would be to make the first attempt at casting have advantage, second attempt normal, all subsequent attempts at disadvantage. That keeps the unpredictable element but still makes it less likely that you completely whiff on a spell, but also makes it less likely you get to cast it multiple times, which strikes me as a desirable goal.

Two potential problems: it creates some bookkeeping (especially at higher levels) which isn't inline with Shadowdark's minimalism, and I'm not sure how to mesh it with Magic Missile (which always rolls with advantage).

Personally I think the cleanest solution, that doesn't actually change anything, is just to give everybody (including non-casters) a luck token at the beginning of each day.

 

[Fenris-77]

Maybe we're trying to add a modern idea to something that is trying to be less modern. Maybe the modern idea is that a Player should always get to do something on their turn. Maybe Shadowdark doesn't care. Maybe sometimes your turn comes up, you roll the dice, and nothing happens. Fighters get gyped like this all the time. Of course it's the wizards crying foul again.

Every charaacter isn't going to have something to do every turn. That's madness. Each class has it's own areas of specialization where they will excel and other characters take a back seat. That's how classes work. Past that the responsibility is on the player to do something based on GM framing, not on the system to provide something to do.

 

[Umbran]

Fighters get gyped like this all the time.

Mod Note:
Folks, a gentle reminder that "gypped" is a racial slur, based on the stereotype that the Romani people were cheating criminals. It would be good to find other words to express this. Thanks.