How would you defend your subterranean kingdom?

A lot of these ideas are campaign specific. Goblins in world A are smarter than World B and so forth.

Think about how smart your goblins are. Are they capable and willing to build complex defenses?

What about their mobility? if they are attacked by another army, will they be trapped in their underground kingdom or could they simply retreat into the underdark? is the attacking army able to effectively fight their way into the kingdom?

Is the kingdom composed of cowards and parasites in shallow hills or are they entrenched professional warriors and rogues ready to make the enemy pay for every inch of ground in blood, like say the Japanese on Iwa Jima?

This will answer a lot of your questions.
 

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Reverse Dungeon rocked. Figured the goblin portion would be over quickly, well it took 3 sessions before we decided to move on to play the higher powered monsters. of course we had wiped out the first 3 parties sent at us and forced the support town to be abandoned.

That does sound like fun. Did it change how your DM ran Goblins, once he saw how nasty they could be?
 

SHARK said:
Greetings!

Well, if confronted with such a force of entrenched Goblins, why would an invading human force be ever so discouraged? It is a relatively simple matter of bringing a legion or two up, and quickly setting to work on a fortified enclosure that would entirely encircle whatever mountain or range of hills that the Goblins have made their homes. With this done, the following efforts can be achieved:

CLIP long list of Roman tactics...


SHARK

Except of course that it would be akin to killing a mosquito with a cruise missile. These tactics weren't used in Medieval times due to the expense and time needed. It would take too many resources, too many trees, too many men, for too long. It could be done if you had NO other problems to deal with, but that never seems to be the case.

If you want to go back in time and have an ancient warfare greco-roman society, leave out the plate mail and crossbows, and pole arms other than spears, etc., and sure, this would work, because it DID work...

Really should chastise you for using ideas from "that" book without crediting the source, but we all know you here and where you got it so no big deal. And no one else gives credit anyway...
 

mmadsen said:
Many of these suggestions sound like they belong in the Hall of the Dwarf King. When I think of Goblins, I think of petty bandits who'll carve low-ceilinged corridors with murder holes above and to the sides -- and who'll cover the ground with caltrops dipped in "filth" (nice euphemism, that). I don't think of engineers setting up massive steel doors, magical traps, etc.

Yeah, I agree with you. I couldnt think dwarves would be able to do any better, and, I hold a dwarven underground complex to higher esteem than a goblin one.

Obvously, what must be done, doesnt change. Only the question "Has it been done?" must be answered. Dwarves would have the grit and determination. Goblins might prefer to overrun someone elses home and forgo all the digging.

-Tim
 

trix said:


Yeah, I agree with you. I couldnt think dwarves would be able to do any better, and, I hold a dwarven underground complex to higher esteem than a goblin one.

Obvously, what must be done, doesnt change. Only the question "Has it been done?" must be answered. Dwarves would have the grit and determination. Goblins might prefer to overrun someone elses home and forgo all the digging.

-Tim

Typical anti-goblinoid prejudice . . . next thing you'll be talking about how their eyes are "dull and glazed", so they can't possibly formulate complex strategies.

I blame the elven propaganda (known as the Monster Manual), of course.
 

Many people (including me) have suggested skirmish forces sallying forth against the invading humans:

ForceUser:
If you want to be *really* nasty, have the goblins send skirmish forces after the PCs every few hours, eliminating any opportunity the PCs have to rest and recoup spells.
DerianCypher:
Every so many feet put a small hidden room that's nearly impossible to find. Now, when your PCs come marching down this corridor (Make sure it's dark btw) have some Goblin Archers fire a shot at them from say 60ft away and then dive into the room and shut the door silently.
Hand of Evil:
Traps, dead end passage ways, ways to get behind your foes.

But I see some potential flaws in that. First, as Forrester pointed out:
As a goblin, I would absolutely know that you can't rely on "secret" entrances or doors of any sort. The fricking elves that walk past them will probably auto-detect them, and then there's that 1st level spell "Detect Secret Doors" that I would be WELL aware of.
If you're under siege, any secret doors in captured territory will eventually be discovered. That's probably not too bad -- you really only need to use the secret door once, for one good surprise attack -- except that any secret door into a secret tunnel means one more path around your defensive choke points. Or do you then spend expensive resources building "gatehouses" along your secret tunnels too? And manning, er, goblinning, them on a regular basis...
 

Actually it occurs to me that there may be an ever more effective defense: make yourself a needle in a haystack.

Goblins are good miners, right? And most D&D worlds have an abundance of natural underground spaces.

First order of business is to make sure you have a good DOZEN escape tunnels which lead to exits at least 10 miles away from the main lair. No way any human force can besiege an area that large. So what if they invade one tunnel? You can easily escape out the back door, and since their army is busy, this is actually a great time to do a bit of raiding. Surface armies are limited to surface topology -- two dimensions -- and are easily blocked or surrounded. Goblins have three dimensions to work with, and should prove a slippery foe. (These escape tunnels double as launching points for raids. If you raid from the north when the lair is actually miles to the south, you've achieved a nice misdirection.) Also, make every attempt to open tunnels to other cave complexes and the rest of the underdark. It's that much more area the invaders have to search trying to find you.

(A good trick is to build tunnels to connect directly to thieves guilds in nearby towns and cities. The theives will benefit from escape tunnels and smuggling operations, and you can benefit from "inside information" and increased trade. Always better to know when an invasion is planned in advance.)

Next, mine the area around the lair like crazy. There should be MILES of tunnels in and around the lair, with complex branches and multiple levels. It would take thousands of men crawling on their hands and knees to cover and inspect all the tunnels, and since it's three dimensional it's nearly impossible to map. If they cover the whole area, they'll be spread thin and easy pickings for goblin squads. If they stay bunched up they can only cover a small portion of the tunnels and move slowly, so are easily avoided.

Third, every year that the human army doesn't come is an opportunity to build MORE tunnels. The longer you stay, the more entrenched you become. Don't worry about making a secure hole with fortified entries -- instead create as many entrances as you possibly can. Instead of being masters of siege and fortification, become masters of stealth and maze navigation. More tunnels means less chance of getting trapped and better ventilation.

Finally, you now have have more tunnels than you can possibly use. Put them to good use by intruducing vermin and enticing other creatures to lair. Since you know the tunnels you can easily avoid problem areas, but invaders will stumble blindly into lair after lair. Besides, those spiders and shriekers make for good hunting and increase your self-sufficiency. Also, now that you have such a wonderful warren of tunnels, invite other humanoids to join you -- goblins, orcs, who cares? There's room enough for all, and strength in numbers. Form alliances when you can. Better yet, if a really powerful monster moves in nearby, that'll distract the human's attention. Again, you're clever and can just avoid that part of the tunnels.

Oh yes, one last thing: now that you've made yourself hard to catch, be sure to punish any invasion attempt with vengeful raids. Burn fields, eat babies, and make them suffer. Build a reputation for vicious evil and shocking cruelty. Make them fear. When they can't catch you, and every attempt brings pain, sooner or later even the stupidest men will give up and leave you alone.
 

Two words: Tallow's Deep! An old module from Dungeon mag (#18). I just ran an updated version with PCs (5 & 6th level party), the body count was about average: 3 or 4 PCs in 3 sorties and they didn't get half way through.

Sounds like a good adventure, Stormdale -- Goblins done right!

Ambushes, narrow passages (5' high & wide), goblin traps built in 3D!

Anyone have good rules for low ceilings and narrow passages? I'm still shocked that I can't find any in the DMG.

What are some good examples of traps "in 3D"?
 


Two nasty (and cheap) corridor traps.

Have a long (at least 60') corridor with an uneven floor, concealed steps, and tripwires. Line the walls with firewood soaked in oil until you have just a 5' wide section of floor. When enemies advance down it, set fire to the wood. As they run out, force them to make balance checks to avoid tripping. Then roll to see if the fire falls on them.

Have a long, steep, straight corridor. At the top place a wagon large enough to fill most of the corridor loaded with rocks and possible a few wasp's nest. When you detect enemies moving up the corridor, roll the wagon down on them.

Other nasty tactics
In one area, have a high underground cliff, with your town on the upper side and the entrance on the bottom. Over the years, the goblins have basically polished the rock so its nearly impossible to climb. The only path up is a long, narrow, winding switchback with a rather uncomfortable tilt to the outside. When under attack put everybody on the top of the cliff and have them throw down rocks, oil, feces, whatever. The PCs will rethink their plan after falling down 60 feet of cliff after slipping on some oil and getting you head bashed by rocks several times. For extra points place spikes and other nasty traps at the bottom.

A deep crevasse 5 feet wide splits a room in two. On one side are the PCs and on the other a single goblin and some boards. The party will probably engage the goblin with ranged weapons, but he runs away instead of fighting back. Hopefully, one of the PCs has jump and decides to use his skills. He jumps, lands on the other side which has been heavily greased and has a slight tilt into the crevasse, slips, falls, slides into the crevasse and disappears from sight with a scream.
 

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