How would you fix the bodak/save-or-die

[Olgar Shiverstone]

The bodak, much like the rust monster, needs no "fixing." If anything, I'd up the save dc. They should be terrifying and make high level pcs wet their pants.

Agreed. Nothing makes players sit up and pay attention to their play like the occasional "save or die" critter. This game ain't Papers & Paychecks. There should be some real danger, not a soft cushy pillow under each and every encounter.

Bodaks & similar critters are the last remaining nulcear weapons of D&D. DMs just need to learn that you use nuclear weapons judiciously, not every encounter. Personally, I like the possibility of nuclear weapons to help keep players cautious.

 

[Treebore]

Whimps! If you don't have a protection from death spell going then I guess your just going to have to risk dying! If you don't want to die don't go on adventures!!

 

[Knight Otu]

I'll take a detailed stab at it, if you allow.

Old SRD stats:
BODAK
Medium Undead (Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 9d12 (58 hp)
Initiative: +6
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares)
Armor Class: 20 (+2 Dex, +8 natural), touch 12, flat-footed 18
Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+5
Attack: Slam +6 melee (1d8+1)
Full Attack: Slam +6 melee (1d8+1)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Death gaze
Special Qualities: Damage reduction 10/cold iron, darkvision 60 ft., immunity to electricity, resistance to acid 10 and fire 10, undead traits, vulnerability to sunlight
Saves: Fort +3, Ref +5, Will +7
Abilities: Str 13, Dex 15, Con —, Int 6, Wis 12, Cha 12
Skills: Listen +11, Move Silently +10, Spot +11
Feats: Alertness, Dodge, Improved Initiative, Weapon Focus (slam)
Environment: A chaotic evil-aligned plane
Organization: Solitary or gang (2–4)
Challenge Rating: 8
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always chaotic evil
Advancement: 10–13 HD (Medium); 14–27 HD (Large)
Level Adjustment: —

Bodaks are the undead remnants of humanoids who have been destroyed by the touch of absolute evil.
A bodak retains fleeting memories of its past life and can speak Common (or some other humanoid language).

COMBAT
Death Gaze (Su): Death, range 30 feet, Fortitude DC 15 negates. Humanoids who die from this attack are transformed into bodaks 24 hours later. The save DC is Charisma-based.
Vulnerability to Sunlight (Ex): Bodaks loathe sunlight, for its merest touch burns their impure flesh. Each round of exposure to the direct rays of the sun deals 1 point of damage to the creature.

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Bodaks are supposed to have been destroyed by the touch of absolute evil. They have a bit of a glass jaw if their Death Gaze doesn't kill their foes, and a DC of 15 isn't that hard to make. If it doesn't gain a benefit from the death gaze, it turns into something of a sitting duck, with little ability to do anything (a single slam for 1d8+1?! Come on!).

My re-interpretation comes from the angle that bodaks are destroyed by that touch of absolute evil - they effectively become the fingers of that absolute evil. First off, let's remove the death gaze, and replace it by something similar.

Presence of Absolute Evil (Su): The Bodak exudes an aura that hints at the darkness that created it and haunts any living creature near it. Every creature within 60 feet of the bodak suffer a -4 penalty to attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks.
Intensify Presence (Su): As a swift action, the bodak can intensify the aura for one round, increasing the penalties to -6. Good creatures in the area must make a Fortitude save (DC X) or be nauseated for 1d4+1 rounds. Once the bodak uses this ability, it cannot use it again for 5 rounds. The save DC is Charisma-based.

The Presence ability will almost always impact the fight, and can hit stronger if necessary. It can also be more powerful against good characters if intensified. However, now it doesn't really have a "kill" ability, and is still stuck with the measly 1d8+1. In fact, its very stats are a bit lacking, so I'll up them a bit. Now, for the kill ability, I'll return to the idea that bodaks are essentially "fingers" of the absolute evil.
Touch of Absolute Evil (Su): The touch and the natural attacks of a bodak transfer bone-chilling evil, capable of corrupting any foe to the bones. Any creature hit by a bodak must make a Fortitude save (DC X) or take 1 point of ability damage to all abilities. Evil creatures get a +2 circumstance bonus to this save. If any of the victim's ability scores drops to 0, it dies. 24 hours later, it rises as a bodak without its special attacks - it gains them after a week has passed since its creation. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Of course, this new bodak is no longer the silent ambusher, capable of killing the unsuspecting. It is more of an agent of evil, and as such should have different skills and feats, and a better speed. To round things out, I'll add an ability for better survivability (reducing the DR to compensate), and make a few more flavor tweaks (why resistance/immunity to fire/electricity if sunlight weakens it?). I feel the end result might easily be a CR 9, but that has to be determined by playtesting.

Semi-Final Stats:

BODAK
Medium Undead (Extraplanar, Evil)
Hit Dice: 9d12+9+27 (94 hp)
Initiative: +8
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 22 (+4 Dex, +8 natural), touch 14, flat-footed 18
Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+7
Attack: Slam +8 melee (2d6+3, touch of absolute evil)
Full Attack: Slam +8 melee (2d6+3, touch of absolute evil)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Intensify Presence, Presence of Absolute Evil, Touch of Absolute Evil
Special Qualities: Damage reduction 5/good and cold iron, darkvision 60 ft., force into the world, immunity to cold, resistance to acid 10 and sonic 10, turn resistance +2, undead traits, vulnerability to sunlight
Saves: Fort +3, Ref +7, Will +7
Abilities: Str 17, Dex 19, Con —, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 16
Skills: Intimidate +15, Listen +13, Spot +13
Feats: Ability Focus (Touch of Absolute Evil), Improved Initiative, Improved Toughness, Weapon Focus (slam)
Environment: A chaotic evil-aligned plane
Organization: Solitary or hand (2–5)
Challenge Rating: 9
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always evil (any)
Advancement: 10–13 HD (Medium); 14–27 HD (Large), or by class level
Level Adjustment: —

Bodaks are the undead remnants of humanoids who have been destroyed by the touch of absolute evil.
A bodak retains fleeting memories of its past life and can speak Common (or some other humanoid language).

COMBAT
Presence of Absolute Evil (Su): The Bodak exudes an aura that hints at the darkness that created it and haunts any living creature near it. Every creature within 60 feet of the bodak suffer a -4 penalty to attack rolls, skill checks, and ability checks.
Intensify Presence (Su): As a swift action, the bodak can intensify the aura for one round, increasing the penalties to -6. Good creatures in the area must make a Fortitude save (DC 17) or be nauseated for 1d4+1 rounds. Once the bodak uses this ability, it cannot use it again for 5 rounds. The save DC is Charisma-based.
Touch of Absolute Evil (Su): The touch and the natural attacks of a bodak transfer bone-chilling evil, capable of corrupting any foe to the bones. Any creature hit by a bodak must make a Fortitude save (DC 19) or take 1 point of ability damage to all abilities. Evil creatures get a +2 circumstance bonus to this save. If any of the victim's ability scores drops to 0, it dies. 24 hours later, it rises as a bodak without its special attacks - it gains them after a week has passed since its creation. The save DC is Charisma-based.
Vulnerability to Sunlight (Ex): Bodaks loathe sunlight, for its merest touch burns their impure flesh. Each round of exposure to the direct rays of the sun deals 1 point of damage to the creature.
Force into the World (Ex): The bodak gets bonus hit points equal to its Hit Dice times its Charisma bonus (if any). It literally forces itself into the world by its sheer power of spirit.

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*Runs for cover*

 

[BOZ]

How would you fix the bodak/save-or-die

3d6 points of Charisma drain?

 

[the black knight]

The boday is fine. It's people's cajones that need fixing.

 

[Ranger5]

Ironically in the last game session I ran, the party of 12-13th level characters came across a group of 4 bodaks in a dungeon.

Now I found Death Gaze of the bodak their only real choice of attack even though the DC is only 15. I really did not expect anyone to die and for the party to wipe the floor with them. Well, the warblade of the party rolled a 1 on his Fort save and died.

Now this may seem harsh and "unfun" but with a feat like Steadfast Determination from PHBII, he would have lived since even with a 1 on his Fort save it came out to a 19.

So do I think the bodak or other save or die effects need to be changed? Not really. Since there are now ways to defeat that.

Now the humorous part to the story was when the dungeon had been all explored (it was a relatively small one) the party took their fallen comrades body and stuffed it into one of their empty bags of holding to take back to the city to get raised.

The party did not roll high enough to learn the after-effect of the Death Gaze and even the players (all experienced) had forgotten that little tidbit. So when they arrived back at the city 3 days later and went to go get their friend raised, the had a nasty surprise waiting for them. Fortuneatly the owner of the bag was faster on initiative then the newly created bodak and he closed the bag before the bodak could do anything.

So now this party has a bodak in a bag of holding. And oh, they are kind of an amoral group at best as well.

Oh the possibilties....

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Funny answer: Don't consider it metagaming to not look at one!

Serious answer: I would probably change it from instant death to immediatly dropping to -1 (possibly with a fair bit of Con drain?), so at least the rest of the party has a chance to save you and/or for you to stabilize. However I dislike any "save or die" creature and feel they serve no purpose other than to screw the PCs, so my views are quite biased.

Hmmm, I rather like this one, though I might make it -1 per point the save was failed by - so if you failed the save by 5 points you are at -5 HP and dropping. Failing the save by 10 or more would remain an instant kill, but is rather unlikely.

The Auld Grump

 

[TheAuldGrump]

The boday is fine. It's people's cajones that need fixing.

Though not everyone runs a game where Raise Dead spells are as common as dirt - in the Iron Kingdoms having Save or Die effects is very different than in say Greyhawk.

The Auld Grump

 

[the black knight]

Though not everyone runs a game where Raise Dead spells are as common as dirt - in the Iron Kingdoms having Save or Die effects is very different than in say Greyhawk.

The Auld Grump

Who said anything about Raise Dead spells being common?

 

[Felon]

For some damnable reason I can't quite put my finger on, I have less problem with the bodak's deadly gaze than I do the mind flayer's stunning mind blast. Maybe it's the range...

Anyway, dropping to -1 HP really gives a cleric plenty of time to run over apply cures. How about a combo Fort/Will save like a hag's gaze or phantasmal killer?

Or, turn the passive gaze into a level drain, and make the active gaze save-or-die.