How would you handle this player/situation? (long-ish)

[Connorsrpg]

Play On

OK Boxstop, I think we have all, as DMs, let a situation start that we have regretted. I recall a VERY similar situation in my oriental campaign with a minotaur..samurai Only this was the opposite. We were lower level and the minotaur shined...my bad...

BUT, the player ENJOYED his character and the others didn't mind the extra protection. Whilst your example is the reverse, I still think the word ENJOY is more important. Obviously this player LOVES dragons and you let him create this character. Many things bad have happened to this character AND STILL he wants to play it. Sorry, but I think that is FANTASTIC! Willing to forego some power for a great character! Though to me it doesn't seem underpowered at all (your just looking at the HPs). Planesdragon has outlined statistical averages that make sense. It seems the others have simply rolled well and/or this player bad.

So. I think there should be differences in the characters. I am not one for all should be exactly equal. If that was the case we wouldn't Roll stats. But I digress.

The problem here is more about the roleplaying of said character. You definately NEED to sit down and write out EXACTLY what this code on honor is. (Unearthed Arcana has several ideas for different honor systems). That is paramount.

If this character cannot be the frontline tank then one of two things needs to change. There may have to be a change in role, and therefore maybe class, and then the honorable death or dishonor can go. The idea of barbarian may be more appropriate. But, still this may not be satisfying for the player if the really want a samurai. So maybe a list of suitable feats for such a tank. Toughness wouldn't hurt, as would ways of gaining AC or damage reduction. Heaps of feats for the AC anyway. The spellcasters of group could also help here with aid for a few extra HPs.

My main point is there are ways around this. The difference in characters cannot be that big. Maybe a few minor tweaks are needed or a slight change in focus, but ultimately if the player is happy then great! Furthermore, samurai aren't necessarily stupid either. They don't HAVE to fight until they die if there is no cause for the fight. If nothing will be lost and no one hurt, then I fight may not be needed. You really need (and maybe already have) to outline EXACTLY what gains and loses honor. Make that airy comparison to strange aliens from weird show where people have no pockets finite and clear.

Hope this helps . Love to hear how it all goes.

Connors

 

[Patman21967]

No Offense to Sigurd...everybody GM's differently, but to use him I'll demonstrate what I mean....A Lizard Man Samurai? Why in the name of Glorantha would a Lizard Man be a Samurai, and adventure with an Air Genasi, Assimar ( notice the spelling ) and Humans....Aren't Genasi FR races? Is your campaign set in FR? What my question is, do you include all races and classes in your campaigns? I read one thread here, where PC's were so different it sounded like the GM was 12..Just pick anything..One was a Blackgaurd/Expert/WarCaptain/Rogue/ etc....I had a player want to take 3 levels in rogue, after 3 in Paladin because he just wanted the spcail abitiies...there needs to be backgrounds and role-playing reasons why characters progress. If said Paladin lost his Paladinhood and then became a Rogue....OK, but things need to be done in the context of the game...That's why every one of my campaign starts at 1st level...My Draconic PC started with -1s in everything because it has a +1 adj....I would stress Role-Plaing first, because it is easier to explain to newbies....have them create backstories for their characters, so they aren'y just a bunch of numbers. Have them imagine how thei characters would perform in certain situations, have them describe it to you, then teach them the mechanic of their description.....to me that's the best way of introducing people to the game....Sorry for the rants....these kinds of things just get me going...

 

[Patman21967]

Oriental Minotaur Samurai?

 

[LeifVignirsson]

Well, this is a sticky wicket... And if I were in England, I might know what that REALLY means... Anyway...

I think you have a problem because there is no real way to get out of him doing the things he has done. However, I don't think there is a way for him to be happy without hurting his feelings on this. I will tell you from experience as a gamer in this situation that it is no fun for us to have a player with all of that power and have no idea how to use it or make poor decisions because they don't understand everything (aka: grown into the power).

Case in point, one player I played with started his D&D career off by being a Ranger/Bard with the thought in mind that he wanted to be the "Iron Chef" of fantasy. Wait for it. Even with his skills in cooking and the like, he still was terrible because he had NO IDEA what to do in ANY situation and when we made sure he would get into situations where he would excel, he failed. However, the mark of a true gamer is the ability to get out of the situation with your mad rp skills. He couldn't do that either, and it essentially killed the game.

I would say sit down your other players and ask them their opinion. If you use them as your sounding wall on this, you might be able to get support from them as well without having to be "The Big Bad DM". When the both of you go over creation, nerf him from the exotic. Make him a human fighter or an elven mage... Something that is a bit simple, let him get orientated and THEN if THAT one goes, there is something wrong.

Also, though I hate to say it, you should fudge your rolls. True, that dragon ripped him to shreds, but you could have held back some. Not good for him later if he finds out, but at least he still gets a chance to play the character and get used to him instead of now thinking in some way that characters are disposable.

Just a thought. Don't envy you at all, but I am sure you will do what is best, even if it hurts someones feelings.

 

[Connorsrpg]

Yes a minotaur samurai

Yes, Patman12### I did have an oriental samurai. Infact in our CS there are many...and yes there is a history behind the whole idea and the concept fits in great. I don't want to steal the thread here, and I won't, needless to say all of the roleplaying stuff fitted in, blah, blah blah. Said player did not pull this out of the air, it was a definite cultural choice, already written into the setting.

I agree with your rant. DMs should set these parameters first. I certainly give each race + class a cultural identity for the region in which a campaign takes place.

BTW it was inspired by the 2E Kara-Tur Monstrous Compendium cover and there is now some more cool art for such creatures...they are actually oni (funny name escapes me at moment), but the art can easily be used for these minona (oriental minotaurs)

Connors

 

[Hemlock Stones]

The Twinked Out Half-dragon Template Website

GREETINGS!

Doe anybody know where the Twinked out Half-Dragon Template website is? Seriously. I have been playing D&D since the late 70's. Every time that I have ever gamed and somebody pulls a Half-Dragon template out of their ass to play as a character the game suffers. DM's have trouble. Players get tired of having to put up with all the shenanigans the Half-Dragon character perpetrates.

What's more, it always seems to be the players that have difficulty with the general concepts of role playing. I'd like to go to the TOHDT website and see just what it is that influences players to do this as a character. Is there some absurd fantasy novel character of a half-dragon that everybody wants to play?

I feel bad for anybody that has to go through this. Role playing games can be such fun and it sucks when these moron players ruin it for everybody else. My friends and I banned one guy from participating in our gaming group because he was such an ass when it came to role playing games and characters with any sort of Half template designation.

I am all for being able to customize characters. Making your character special and different from anybody else is what is most special when you enjoy role playing games. It allows you to step into that character and breathe life into them and make the game work. Then some clueless boob starts playing a character that doesn't balance well with the rest of your group and goes out of there way to play contrary to the best interests of the party. Then when you try to talk to them about it, all you get is grief about how they are an English Major and they are playing the character "right".

Bone Daddy Hath Spoke!

 

[Patman21967]

Bone Daddy...that's what my girlfriend calls me....hahahaha....Connor, I wasn't ripping you, my man, I thought it sounded cool...I played a Minotaur in RQ, and he lasted about 15 minutes...got impaled by an Ent....I think the level adjustments are kinda screwy in 3.5....I don't know about Kara-Tur..Oh...that's the OA lands...Ahhh I see...I once had a player want to play an Oriental Barbarian with a GreatAxe...I laughed so hard I nearly pissed my pants....I'm tired....bed time from the province of De La Warr....One of the guys I played RQ with moved back home to OZ 2 years ago...we gamed for 10 years together.....Volmar WindRider was his character...He lives in Sydney...loves it there...see ya

 

[robberbaron]

The guy obviously knows jack about Bushido. Or Klingons, for that matter. Stop him playing Samurai characters until he knows what he is talking about. If he spits his dummy (pacifier?) out then so be it, but you can't pander to his whims to the detriment of the game.

I can understand you wanting to start the game at a higher level, but 8th is way too high for a new player. Perhaps 3rd might have been more appropriate - certainly would have precluded a Half-Dragon character.

You could always let him work towards a draconic template later on.

 

[wedgeski]

I would tend to agree. But part of the problem is that the player in question won't play anything but a Samurai. That's fine, if he'd actually play a Samurai. He doesn't know how to role-play, and barely knows how to roll-play. I think he's taken on WAY more than he's ready to handle, and it's not fair to the other players if I let him slide on such things as egregious violations of the bushido. A Samurai simply would not run from battle, even if he knew the next wound would kill him. Sorry. He simply wouldn't.

I think Connorsrpg is the only one close to my own feelings on the matter. Here you have a novice player who not only came up with a character concept that he feels really jazzed about (no small novelty in itself), but despite a series of failures he is still ultra-keen to play it. You tell him that he must adhere to his bushido or be screwed, but you don't tell him (from what I can gather) what his bushido is. Then everyone in the thread rails at the guy for making poor combat and roleplaying decisions in a game that he is new to.

Spell out his honour code, and beyond that, follow Planesdragon's advice. Good luck!

 

[S'mon]

I think the problem here is "template/crunch" disease, IMO a bane of 3e. I reckon he needs a PC with the _stats_ of a straight human Fighter, with decent CON (and maybe DEX) as well as good STR, but as part of his _background_ he can be a member of a Samurai type group (w/out rules "crunch", at least to start) and likewise according to family legend can be dragon-blooded, descended from a dragon, again WITHOUT "crunch" (concrete rules) effects. It's the 'crunch' that's crippling this PC. Remove it, restrict the weird stuff to "fluff" and help him build a solid human fighter, and the problem should disappear.