Realistic Combat that's Simple(ish)

[Thomas Shey]

There are saves in CP2020, but they're based upon distance down the HP track. Unlike CP 2013, which was a comparison of damage to body type, and resulting rolls.

2013 is more realistic, but also more a pain to run with anyone who plays D&D... as they whine about it being soooo lethal.

Wasn't the hit points derived from Body though? So in practice it was just a difference in terms of whether already extent damage mattered rather than total, no?

 

[mmadsen]

CP2020 uses a hit point track. You're describing CP2013, not 2020.

When I said, “Cyberpunk 2020 used a couple damage saves, the stun save and the death save, that could work just fine without hit points (and wound levels, which are basically groups of four hit points).” I was acknowledging that Cyberpunk 2020 uses a hit point track but noting that it’s a lot of extra work, when straight-up damage saves work just fine.

 

[Thomas Shey]

When I said, “Cyberpunk 2020 used a couple damage saves, the stun save and the death save, that could work just fine without hit points (and wound levels, which are basically groups of four hit points).” I was acknowledging that Cyberpunk 2020 uses a hit point track but noting that it’s a lot of extra work, when straight-up damage saves work just fine.

As I asked earlier, how do you keep track of degree of injury and healing after the fact then? There are non-hit-point models that can do that, but I don't think the Stun and Death saves by themselves do.

 

[mmadsen]

As I asked earlier, how do you keep track of degree of injury and healing after the fact then? There are non-hit-point models that can do that, but I don't think the Stun and Death saves by themselves do.

There are any number of ways you could handle wounds and healing in a system without hit points.

In most genre fiction, any wound that doesn’t put you down is a flesh wound that you bandage up before getting back into action, so simply ignoring any treated wounds would work fine, or requiring a successful First Aid roll to “heal” a wound.

If you want cumulative damage, untreated wounds could cost one Body; that is, they could incur -1 each to future damage saves until treated.

 

[Thomas Shey]

There are any number of ways you could handle wounds and healing in a system without hit points.

Sure. You just seemed like you were acting like the saves alone would do the work.

In most genre fiction, any wound that doesn’t put you down is a flesh wound that you bandage up before getting back into action, so simply ignoring any treated wounds would work fine, or requiring a successful First Aid roll to “heal” a wound.

Of course for the most part, people emulating most genre fiction are going to find easy instant deaths or takeouts as welcome as a fungal infection, at least on a PC.

If you want cumulative damage, untreated wounds could cost one Body; that is, they could incur -1 each to future damage saves until treated.

I don't actually think cumulative wounds are a great model, but if you're trying for any realism something to handle persistent injury is needed.

 

[Argyle King]

I think that a realistic combat system would make a much, much bigger deal out of morale and fear in combat. Even mundane foes should scare most people, leaving them shaken indefinitely, potentially frightened, and even panicked. In a modern fire-fight, I would expect most soldiers to be frightened and taking cover. The braver ones might be shaken and firing wildly. The bravest, or craziest, few might keep their cool and deliver pinpoint accuracy. (Those are the PCs, of course.)

Some games do have that.
Things like shock can occur.
PCs could have advantages that mitigate or eliminate that (or they start without such advantages and gain them).

It's surprising what the mind can normalize.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Some games do have that.
Things like shock can occur.
PCs could have advantages that mitigate or eliminate that (or they start without such advantages and gain them).

It's surprising what the mind can normalize.

I've mentioned Eclipse Phase 2e in this context. It has four types of things that can cause psychological injury; three of the four you can accumulate resistance to (the fourth only a subset of characters can because of specifics of the genre and setting it applies to) and after a while become immune--but there's a price for that happening in how good you are at dealing with other people.