How would you market D&D? A Hypothetical exercise

[kenobi65]

Another funky ad-agency job that most people haven't heard of. My wife is an account planner at DDB here in Los Angeles, and one of my friends here at my agency is an account planner and he plays D&D in my campaign (hasn't played recently due to having a baby now) and also he and I play board games at lunch when we get the chance (LOTR: Confrontation, Lost Cities, etc...)

LOL. Yeah, I introduce myself as: "account planner, a job title that tells you *absolutely nothing* about what I do."

Myself, I'm at Foote Cone & Belding Chicago. And, one of the groups I play in started as a bunch of us here at FCB (though I'm the only one in the group that's still at FCB).

 

[kenobi65]

I would be curious as to some of your suggestions on marketing D&D.

Well, as a general rule of thumb, I think Samothdm's right on when he says, "fish where the fish are." Any marketing of this game is going to be a lot more effective if you start by identifying where you're going to find people who are more predisposed to get into the game.

A good example might be found in model rocketry -- another really niche hobby that I enjoy, (and, like most "modeling" hobbies, worries a lot about its aging fan base). About a year and a half ago, Discovery Channel ran a series of 3 one-hour specials on model rocketry. A couple of the rocketry organizations raised money to buy commercial space during the program, pointing those who might be interested in trying the hobby to a web site with more information.

The trick for making this work with D&D (other than there being few centralized, non-profit user organizations in RPGs that could raise funds for this) would be finding the right places to run such ads. I *suspect* that certain shows or miniseries on Sci-Fi might have an appropriate audience; the recent "Dragons" special on Animal Planet might have been another one.

Beyond that (which might *still* be too expensive), I think (as some others have mentioned in this and similar threads) a big need is to reach young potential players. In the spirit of "fishing where the fish are", it'd seem to make sense to try to cross-promote with other properties that attract kids who are interested in fantasy and role-playing (i.e., young nerds ).

If you could figure out a way to cross-promote with Harry Potter, that'd probably be ideal (but might be very difficult and / or expensive to pull off). Still, maybe you could create displays of the Basic Game and the rulebooks to be placed in bookstores on the night that the new Harry Potter book comes out.

Similarly, one might look into ways to get promotional material into the hands of kids who play Yu-Gi-Oh, computer RPGs, etc.

Just a couple of thoughts off the top of my head while I put off doing my expense reports.

 

[John Morrow]

Well, as a general rule of thumb, I think Samothdm's right on when he says, "fish where the fish are." Any marketing of this game is going to be a lot more effective if you start by identifying where you're going to find people who are more predisposed to get into the game.

I agree with one of the earlier suggestions about a version of the game aimed and younger audiences. I think that part of the problem is that they are currently aiming for a target starting age that is too late. Children are predisposed toward imaginative play with toys. Catch them before they start falling out, and you'll have a larger base. I always envisoned something involving adding lightweight role-playing rules to action figures -- for example giving "to hit" rolls, damage rolls, hit points, and rudimentary skills to GI Joe action figures -- as a transition between playing imaginative games with toys and role-playing with miniatures or even without them. By waiting until the early teens or later, you've pretty much limited yourself to a pool that has allowed other forces to shape their tastes.

Of course I think that's a big problem with the whole hobby. Everyone except WotC and possibly WW want to target their games at existing role-players rather than going through the effort to attrack and create new role-players. If you are going to let others shape your customer base, you aren't going to have a whole lot of control over it

 

[Gentlegamer]

I always envisoned something involving adding lightweight role-playing rules to action figures -- for example giving "to hit" rolls, damage rolls, hit points, and rudimentary skills to GI Joe action figures -- as a transition between playing imaginative games with toys and role-playing with miniatures or even without them

This sounds much like WizKids Shadowrun game line. Adding such things to action figures would be a great idea! What are the hot kids franchises these days? In my day, it would have been GI Joe, Transformers, He-Man, and even some of the D&D toys from the mid-eighties. My younger brother's hot action figures were Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

 

[Remathilis]

I actually think D&D is moving on the right track, all things said. Few if any of the students I work with don't know what the D&D brand is, even if all they know of it is "its some nerd game." So brand recognition is actually doing well.

<Aside: I bought a pack of the Revenge of the Sith Minis, and inside was an ad for the D&D minis game. That might attract some fresh players>

What needs to be done?

1.) Aim for an older base. The D&D brand is OLDER. Most common perception places it as a "niche of teenagers and college students" Thats fine. But market it to 20 somethings also. Show that the base is not white, male star-trek geeks but also professionals, women, diverse ethnic groups, and something that doesn't require you to be a nerd to do.

2.) Use the current pop culture: D&D lost two golden oppertunities to cash in: the LotR craze and the Harry Potter craze. This put fantasy in the limelight and D&D wasn't there to cash in by screaming "LIVE the LEGEND!" Loosing the LotR liscence to Decipher was a brutal blow for that.

3.) Use the Minis game as your gateway drug. Kids buy the minis. The rules are simple and fast paced. Then, move toward the middle ground: a single hard-bound tome that tells you how to role-play with your minis. Stats? They are on the cards. The tome teaches basics (groupwork, advancement, treasure, GM skills.) The big boys can then buy the core books which allow for great customization of character, monster, and world.) The tier looks like this....

1.) BASIC: Minis game. (Gotta catch em all)
2.) ADVANCED: Gaming Guide
3.) EXPERT: Core Books.

4.) Eberron. The core books are bland by design. Good for expert GMs who want to cherry-pick and add their own flavor, bad for newer DMs who want to get a feel for the game. I suggest a "real" setting to take the role of Greyhawks semi-retirement. While Realms has a fan-base and some definite product exposure (BG, IWD, NWN), Eberron is the new poster child and ties into...

5.) BLITZ them at the opening of D&D ONLINE: Mass media the D&D:O to hell. Free demos, ads in EGM, CGW, and Maxim. Then, have lots of minis and core stuff ready with the tag: "Want to play offline?" or such, and boom! we've got lots of fans online willing to move to the books to continue their adventures off-line with their friends.

6.) Make a functional E-Tools: A cheap, easy to use, and fully customizable DM tool (3.5 compatable) would appeal as a go between for the Book and D&D:O game. Just make it useable and easy, don't go for fancy.

7.) Release D&D the movie 2 ONLY IF its good enough to make people WANT to see it. The first was bad PR. If you need to, make an animated one like Scourge of Worlds or something.

8.) WAL-MART. Sell the minis and the Advanced book at Walmart, TRU, Target, and whereever toys are sold. This should get some more involved and increase exposure.

9.) USE HASBRO: No D&D Monopoly? Or D&D RISK? No D&D action figures for the first movie? What about hand-held games? Expand into Hasbro's turf. Make the relationship two-way.

10.) DON'T alienate you fanbase: THe hardest is making sure you don't piss off the people who have been your bread and butter for decades. Don't dumb it down, don't sell it to "extreme" hype. Make the game sophisticated yet excessible and you will get kids who WANT to try it.

 

[kenobi65]

9.) USE HASBRO: No D&D Monopoly? Or D&D RISK?

Ah, but there *is* D&D Clue.

 

[Samothdm]

Myself, I'm at Foote Cone & Belding Chicago. And, one of the groups I play in started as a bunch of us here at FCB (though I'm the only one in the group that's still at FCB).

Small world. I started my ad agency career at Foote Cone & Belding here in Los Angeles (not the Orange County office) on Mattel and California Milk Advisory Board (and a bunch of other clients as well).

My World of Samoth Campaign started up with a core of players from my old job at Grey when we landed the WotC account. I was the only one in the group who had heard of Magic and D&D, so one of the women I worked with said, "Well, teach us!" and that was the incentive I needed to dig out my box of notes on my homebrew, dust it off, get up to speed with 3.0, and starting campaigning. We're still playing that same campaign today, although none of us work at Grey any more.

Beyond that (which might *still* be too expensive), I think (as some others have mentioned in this and similar threads) a big need is to reach young potential players. In the spirit of "fishing where the fish are", it'd seem to make sense to try to cross-promote with other properties that attract kids who are interested in fantasy and role-playing (i.e., young nerds ).

If you could figure out a way to cross-promote with Harry Potter, that'd probably be ideal (but might be very difficult and / or expensive to pull off). Still, maybe you could create displays of the Basic Game and the rulebooks to be placed in bookstores on the night that the new Harry Potter book comes out.

Similarly, one might look into ways to get promotional material into the hands of kids who play Yu-Gi-Oh, computer RPGs, etc.

Yeah, that's pretty much along the lines of what I was thinking in my first post to this thread. I think Remathilis has it pretty much right when he says:

1.) BASIC: Minis game. (Gotta catch em all)

That's what I was looking for when I said "some kind of hybrid step between CCGs and RPGS". For some reason I was brain dead and didn't think of the obvious answer - the collectible minis. I suspect this is a large part of WotC's strategy - to transfer some of the collectible nature of card games over to RPGs to attract younger players and build a new fan base.

When D&D 3.0 came out, there was a college tour demo program that WotC did, and we supported it with paid advertising in college newspapers and college radio stations. Basically, a team of WotC employees (or contractors, maybe) would go to different college campuses and demo how to play the new 3.0 rules. It was pretty successful from what I understand.

Years later, when the Harry Potter Trading Card Game came out, one of the things that my team and I suggested was getting the same concept going, but at Movie Theatres. We had programs lined up where teams of people would go demo the game at theatres across the country that were showing the new Harry Potter movie and also related movies like the LOTR Trilogy and stuff like that. We were planning on in-theatre signage and all sorts of stuff like that (even had the idea of exclusive HP TCG cards on the sides or bottom of popcorn buckets). They never went through with it, but I think we got points for having good ideas.

You could do the same thing with a D&D demo. Find movies that are related (the D&D 2 movie would be perfect if it is actually good, along the lines of the LOTR movies, and not like the first D&D movie) and then do demos at the theatre, preferably at the cooler new theatres with lots of space and good food and bars and all that kind of stuff. For the demos, you don't want LARPERs or dress-up or anything like that. I think you'd want some minis and about five people, a mix of guys and girls, and some free giveaways (like a stripped-down softback core rules booklet). If you had a network of local people do the demos (after a screener process) the costs would be relatively small (you could probably pay them with product as opposed to cash).

9.) USE HASBRO: No D&D Monopoly? Or D&D RISK? No D&D action figures for the first movie? What about hand-held games? Expand into Hasbro's turf. Make the relationship two-way.

That is a problem. I have D&D Clue but those others should come out as well.

10.) DON'T alienate you fanbase: THe hardest is making sure you don't piss off the people who have been your bread and butter for decades. Don't dumb it down, don't sell it to "extreme" hype. Make the game sophisticated yet excessible and you will get kids who WANT to try it.

Yep. That's the real trick. But, you're absolutely right.

 

[kenobi65]

Small world. I started my ad agency career at Foote Cone & Belding here in Los Angeles (not the Orange County office) on Mattel and California Milk Advisory Board (and a bunch of other clients as well).

Even smaller than you think...when we had the Mattel account, I did several research studies for them (for some reason, account management on that account was handled out of our office).

If you had a network of local people do the demos (after a screener process) the costs would be relatively small (you could probably pay them with product as opposed to cash).

I know WotC has that new program where they've got local "envoys" (I can't remember the actual name)...but, from what I've read, those folks are expected to be experts on *all* WotC games, with an emphasis on the non-RPG games.

It seems that grass-roots, ambassador-type programs have worked well for a lot of game companies; I'd like to see WotC do something like this, only having people specifically trained in demoing D&D.

One other thought that I just had...I recently got an XBOX, and bought the "D&D Heroes" game for it. (Fun game, even if it's basically Gauntlet on steroids.) There's precious little, if any, mention of the pen-and-paper game in this game's instruction manual (I'm curious as to what, if any, mention there is in other D&D-based CRPGs, like Neverwinter Nights or Baldur's Gate). It'd seem like an ideal place to put coupons on the D&D books -- $5 off on a Player's Handbook, or something like that.

 

[Remathilis]

Ah, but there *is* D&D Clue.

I know. I own it!

However, I got it at a game shop, not my local Toys R Us. At my TRU, I could find Simpson's Clue, LotR Risk, Star Wars Monopoly, and Disney Life.

A serious attempt to expand the brand into board games like that would mean making them available at national chains, not just FLGS.

 

[Lalato]

Even smaller than you think...when we had the Mattel account, I did several research studies for them (for some reason, account management on that account was handled out of our office).

I know WotC has that new program where they've got local "envoys" (I can't remember the actual name)...but, from what I've read, those folks are expected to be experts on *all* WotC games, with an emphasis on the non-RPG games.

It seems that grass-roots, ambassador-type programs have worked well for a lot of game companies; I'd like to see WotC do something like this, only having people specifically trained in demoing D&D.

They're called WotC Delegates. They do not focus on the RPG... instead their main focus is collectible games. From D&D Minis to Duelmasters. They get credit for visiting stores in their area, doing in-store demos and generally promoting WotC products.

I applied to be one here in Florida, but was turned down... there are already two in my area.

--sam