How would you market D&D? A Hypothetical exercise

Wolv0rine said:
#1: I would revive the D&D cartoon. This is at first deceptive, because I wouldn’t want to revisit the
cartoon as it was. That’d never work. But a regular series directly based on D&D could. Kids are more connected to their TVs now than we were, and just as susceptible to the appeal of an entertaining show. I’d propose a show that:
[*]Took itself seriously. No camp, no goofiness. Kids are pandered to as being simpletons too frelling much in my opinion. But a good show that doesn’t treat them like retards can be just as successful as one that does. And, in direct connection to this…
[*]Took its audience seriously. Give your audience some credit for being intelligent enough to follow you.

That's a good idea, and I like that you qualified it with the "no camp, no goofiness". Too many executives seem to think that Fantasy has to be camp to be successful. I hope that the LOTR movie trilogy helped to quell that kind of thinking. I hate small thinkers like that who only focus on the camp elements of fantasy.

Include commercials in the show (subtle, don’t bash anyone over the head with it,
it turns people off), and on the packaging for the toys, and they’ll find their way to the game.

Lots of good ideas in your post, and I hate to nitpick, but this isn't allowed. There are strict rules and regulations about advertising a kid's game or toy in a show that is based on that particular kid game or toy. You can't advertise the Pokemon Card Game during the Pokemon cartoon show and you can't advertise GI Joe Action Figures during the GI Joe cartoon show. You might think you've seen it before, but you haven't. Kids are way too impressionable for this to be allowed.

Just wanted to point that out so people didn't think that us advertising and marketing people were complete jerks.

BTW, that doesn't mean the rest of your ideas aren't good thoughts.
 

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RangerWickett said:
Anyone remember these announcements: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/br/br20011201a

What ever became of the D&D TV show and dark elf movie? They probably died due to deal-making issues. They could've been done, and done well, but it just ended up they weren't done at all. I wish someone here who knew why could tell us.
Yeah, I remember that. Shame it seems to have faded into vaporware. We never did (far as I know) hear anything specific about it before it faded into the ether. I would hope that if D&D ever made it to TV again, though, that it didn't end up making one of the mistakes the D&D movie made. That being of not showcasing the full spectrum of the game. (There were others, sooooooo many others, I won't go there) We got 2 thieves and a painfully bad wizard (I refuse to address the demi-humans at all, I've eaten today. :P). One thing the old D&D cartoon did do well (could have done better, and could have done it a LOT more faithfully, but it did do it) was that it showcased a lot of D&D stuff. I mean they used the Bullywug, Hooked Horror, and Shambling Mound! How great was that!? :)
And, as far as live action goes... iffy proposition. Hercules and Xena managed to pull it off fairly well (most of the time), but you run a huge risk of it just being... badly done.
 

Samothdm said:
That's a good idea, and I like that you qualified it with the "no camp, no goofiness". Too many executives seem to think that Fantasy has to be camp to be successful. I hope that the LOTR movie trilogy helped to quell that kind of thinking. I hate small thinkers like that who only focus on the camp elements of fantasy.

Which is so strange IMO, because really... does anyone actually LIKE campy fantasy? Sure we take it, but how often are we given a viable alternative option? LotR gave us one (as you touched upon), and I think that really bears out the arguement that many, many people will devour non-camp fantasy when given it done well.

Samothdm said:
Lots of good ideas in your post, and I hate to nitpick, but this isn't allowed. There are strict rules and regulations about advertising a kid's game or toy in a show that is based on that particular kid game or toy. You can't advertise the Pokemon Card Game during the Pokemon cartoon show and you can't advertise GI Joe Action Figures during the GI Joe cartoon show. You might think you've seen it before, but you haven't. Kids are way too impressionable for this to be allowed.
Now that I didn't know. Interesting to learn. But I don't think that would provide too much of a speed bump in the proposition. Unlike the 70's and 80's, D&D is well enough known nonadays that it should work even w/o commercials (especially if you can throw in ads with the toys).

All that aside, this is a fairly interesting thread, and I'm glad you're participating in it. You have an interesting PoV to add. :)
 

There is a market for campy fantasy - look how long "Hercules" with Kevin Sorbo and "Xena" were around. Both were around for several years and were loaded with campy stuff & anachronisms...
 

NewJeffCT said:
There is a market for campy fantasy - look how long "Hercules" with Kevin Sorbo and "Xena" were around. Both were around for several years and were loaded with campy stuff & anachronisms...
Surely, and I was a regular viewer of both. But on the other hand, there wasn't a non-camp alternative to be watching. They were fun shows, and I enjoyed them, but if there had been a good non-camp fantasy series on, I would have been even more interested in that.
 

Wolv0rine said:
Surely, and I was a regular viewer of both. But on the other hand, there wasn't a non-camp alternative to be watching. They were fun shows, and I enjoyed them, but if there had been a good non-camp fantasy series on, I would have been even more interested in that.

That is true, but who knows if the 2020 version of this board won't have people remembering fondly back to the days of how Kevin Sorbo & Lucy Lawless got them interested in D&D way back in the days around when 3E came out?

I'm 38 years old and didn't much like the D&D cartoon. I watched it, sure, because I was into D&D and I felt obligated to watch the cartoon. But, maybe I was a year or three too old for its target audience at the time?

I got into D&D because I had read "The Hobbit" when I was very young, as well as CS Lewis' "The Lion, the Witch & The Wardrobe" and was into things like that... and, I had an early start on comic books and the like. So, D&D was the natural progression of an early interest in fantasy when I was in junior high in the late 70s.
 

I think that the only thing we saw from that announcement was the choose-your-own adventure DVD in the form of Scourge of Worlds.

I recall hearing that Fireworks Television just twiddled their thumbs with the license and when it ran out, WotC did not extend the contract.

Supposedly WotC is watching the development of the second D&D movie very closely, to make sure that it's not another botch-job like the first one.

RangerWickett said:
Anyone remember these announcements: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/br/br20011201a

What ever became of the D&D TV show and dark elf movie? They probably died due to deal-making issues. They could've been done, and done well, but it just ended up they weren't done at all. I wish someone here who knew why could tell us.
 

As I've been thinking about it some more, I think that to come anywhere close to achieving the original goal of increasing the number of players by 20% in the next 18 months (let's forget dealing with how exactly you would measure that goal - does the base of "current players" include everyone who bought a Player's Handbook or is a more real number based on some kind of surverys?).

Anyway, I really think the way to go is not with traditional media advertising but rather with the idea of the "Demo Teams". You'd break your D&D Demo Teams up into ones that target different groups:

1) Young Kids. You could probably target as young as 10 or so, maybe slightly younger, but with a core of around 10-14.

Find a public space (preferably not a game shop) to have the Demos. We actually did this years ago when I was in High School. We got space at the local library in one of their big rooms with sound-proofed doors so we didn't bother the rest of the patrons, posted flyers, and taught three young kids how to play D&D. And, we did that on our own. So, if it were actually organized, you'd probably get a bigger turn-out. You'd invite the parents as well so they could make sure that their kids weren't getting into anything weird. Have some refreshments (pizza would probably be fine, but some healthy fruit snacks as well). You'd get the library's permission (or wheverer you hosted it - local community center, etc.). WotC could run some small ads in the local newspaper, and the Demo Teams could post flyers prior to the event, and also hang out in places where these kids might be (malls, like at the Computer Game Store, or whatever) and let people know that the Demos were coming up.

For the game, instead of just using the Core 3 books, you would use miniatures and a modified set of rules that's really stripped down but runs well with the collectible miniatures. Each person who attends the demo would get a special miniature, only available to people who attend the demo. The kids would totally love that.

2) College Kids. Basically the same thing as above, but obviously you'd demo the game on the college campus. You would advertise the Demos in the college newspaper and on the local college radio station, plus flyers and stuff of course.

For this crowd, you could use the regular rules (or at least show them) but would be better off using a "fewer options" version just for the sake of simplicity.

3) "Genre" Fans. This is basically a catch-all for people out of school who share similar interests of gamers. Screen for interests in things like CCGs, CRPGs, SF/Fantasy TV/Movies/Books, and Comics. You'd promote the events similarly to the way there were promoted to the younger audience, in the local paper and with flyers and signage.

Really, you could target all three groups in similar type places, but I think it would be important to separate out at least the younger players when running the demos.

Things to Avoid:

1) Celebrities. The second you try to tie a celebrity to the game when promoting it to kids is the second that you've just artificially shortened the life cycle of interest in the game. Celebrities come and go - you don't want to tie interest to D&D to the "flavor of the week".

2) Changing the Game. The game should not be changed to try to capitalize on the latest fad. That's not going to help. Instead, it should capitalize on its strengths (social interaction, imagination, etc.). Also, I think the idea of the kid-targeted miniatures thing really would work pretty well (and kudos to the people above who suggested that - I forget who it was).

There are other obvious things to avoid (mostly having to do with properly screening your Demo team members to make sure they represent the brand properly and can interact well wtih kids and adults, don't have criminal records, etc...) but they're all just common sense things anyway.

I think that if Hasbro/WotC could invest in such a program, get quality people to run the Demos, produce some exclusive miniatures only available to people who attend the Demos, and could find the funds to promote the Demos, they could increase the player base. I'm not sure they could do it by 20% in 18 months, but I'm about 99% certain that they'd get more players than they would buy spending the money on a traditional advertising campaign.
 

My gaming story . . .

The D&D cartoon was how I first heard the words "Dungeons & Dragons." I had no idea there was anything to it beyond the show. I was about 7-9 when the show aired Saturday mornings on CBS. It clicked with me because I instinctively liked the swords, magic, and monsters. Playing "swords" with sticks had equal time with playing "guns" during my early years. He-Man, Thundercats, and Goltar added more fuel to my imagination and thirst for fantasy during that time.

Flash forward to junior high. I started reading the "Choose Your Own Adventure" books in 5th grade (as well as the Time Machine series) and loved how I could choose the path. Then, at the public library, I found the Endless Quest book: Pillars of Pentegarn. It said "from the makers of the Dungeons & Dragons game." I took notice: all I knew of D&D was the cartoon. My older cousin had given me his old D&D action figures (Warduke, Strongheart, etc)I devoured all the Endless Quest I could find. They had ads in the back for the Basic Set and Dragon . . . for about 6 years earlier.

Then a friend who had gone to a private school told me about the D&D game and the basic premise: "the Dungeon Master describes to you what you see and you tell him what you want to do." At that moment, and to this very day, that was THE COOLEST THING I HAVE EVER HEARD!

Somehow, I found the AD&D Players Handbook (2e) at Waldenbooks, scraped up some money and dived into the world of D&D role-playing. It was rough going, since I had to teach myself and my friends, who were not inclinded to read, to play.

I would have killed to have a great basic set to learn from. Shortly after, the "black box" basic set came out and it was helpful, but I had already gone through growing pains, particularly when it came to getting my friends to learn the rules and read.

Based on my own experience, I think a new "serious" D&D cartoon* (with action figure line, of course) coupled with an affordable basic set could very well do the trick.

*But please, for all that is sacred, don't make the cartoon "dungeonpunk" in style! It should be more "traditional" fantasy/LOTR/Harry Potter in inspiration rather than WoD, etc.
 
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Ahh, the old 'Choose Your Own Adventure' series. Yeah I burned through those like crazy too. Oddly enough, having read the typical classic fantasy literature as a kid didn't play much of a factor in my own D&D addiction, except as a symptom that I was/am suceptible to the fantasy genre. :)

I like the basic idea of organized reps holding "D&D Classes" (in effect), it harkens back to my early HS days with the game club, playing D&D (and Champions, and Toon, and Mechwarrior, and...) after school while the teacher rep either napped, graded papers, read a book, or wasn't even in the room. :P That was, of course, until it was decided that students weren't allowed to play D&D on school grounds anymore. :/
 

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