D&D 5E Hp as meat and abstraction

[Li Shenron]

The idea is some people view hp as meat and others don't. The question is how can fifth edition allow both playstyles to exist in the same game but at different tables?

I don't know if it's possible.

"Hp as meat" is really simple and intuitive, and works best for beginners. A hit causes a wound, everybody understands that.

The real limit of "hp as meat" is that it doesn't match D&D typical healing rules, spells notwithstanding, since "it's magic" always works as an explanation. But everything else, including natural healing rates when sleeping, healing through mundane skills, short rests etc. don't work well with "hp as meat", simply because they are too fast (in order to allow the PC to keep going without resting for weeks each time), and the result is challenging suspension of disbelief. But is it really a problem of "hp as meat" or is it instead a problem of D&D typically fast automatic regain of HP?

"Hp as whatever" is trickier to explain (and the fact that every time we discuss something related to it, we get a 10+ pages thread of arguments, is a clear sign that the whole idea is not as natural and spontaneous as the first one), and you always stumble upon cases where your suspension of disbelief is seriously challenged as well.

But a RPG can certainly work with either idea as a core assumption. The problem is whatever choice, the rest of the rules should probably better support that chosen assumption as much as possible, to help players keep their suspension of disbelief.

A half-meat/half-fish situation isn't really that good IMHO. Perhaps the best that could be done is start with "hp as meat", and confine all "hp as whatever" rules to optional character material that can be easily ignored (e.g. that "damage on a miss", which exists on an individual PC's basis and is not a general rule). The other way around doesn't work however, because if "hp as whatever" is the starting point, it's quite impossible to put the genie back in the bottle for those who want the other approach.

 

[Umbran]

In the realm of quantum mechanics, there's the concept of "wave-particle duality". Sometimes you treat light (or anything) as a wave, and sometimes you treat them like particles. It's a bit confusing, and a bit of an annoyance, when you first try to dig into things. But eventually you get used to it, and it isn't such a big deal for most who work with it.

Hit points have (some would say suffer) a similar structure. Sometimes it is best to think of them as meat, sometimes as whatever.

 

[Li Shenron]

In the realm of quantum mechanics, there's the concept of "wave-particle duality". Sometimes you treat light (or anything) as a wave, and sometimes you treat them like particles. It's a bit confusing, and a bit of an annoyance, when you first try to dig into things. But eventually you get used to it, and it isn't such a big deal for most who work with it.

A telling analogy, since >99% of the people don't really understand quantum mechanics and even those who do may have issue with it (see Einstein's famous "God doesn't play dice" remark).

 

[Mistwell]

Since the description of Hit Dice says it requires an hour (a short rest) resting and involves first aid, I really don't see how it's similar at all.
Second Wind is temporary HP, closer I suppose, but still believable as 'tapping into reserves of stamina.'

That said, I certainly do not want to see a Warlord class that duplicates Cleric-style healing. I guess that's my line in the sand.

First Aid does not make you "better", it just helps prevent you from getting worse (continuing to bleed, or continuing to aggravate a broken bone or sprain). You're not actually sealing wounds, mending bones, repairing sprains, etc. in an hours period of time.

 

[Mistwell]

In the realm of quantum mechanics, there's the concept of "wave-particle duality". Sometimes you treat light (or anything) as a wave, and sometimes you treat them like particles. It's a bit confusing, and a bit of an annoyance, when you first try to dig into things. But eventually you get used to it, and it isn't such a big deal for most who work with it.

Hit points have (some would say suffer) a similar structure. Sometimes it is best to think of them as meat, sometimes as whatever.

Agreed

 

[Savage Wombat]

If the Great Juju hadn't meant for us to eat people, he wouldn't have made them out of meat.

(Too much argument, not enough cannibalism humor)

 

[Umbran]

If the Great Juju hadn't meant for us to eat people, he wouldn't have made them out of meat.

They're Made Out of Meat?

 

[Lokiare]

A telling analogy, since >99% of the people don't really understand quantum mechanics and even those who do may have issue with it (see Einstein's famous "God doesn't play dice" remark).

Actually if you compress light enough it becomes matter (See E=MC squared) so its basically one of the tiniest forms of matter and acts as a wave because that's what liquid and many tiny bits of matter act as. In fact all matter can be seen as a wave that moves super slow (or has gigantic dips and rises) its just not measurable by our instruments right now.

Scientists will find this out pretty soon though...

 

[Obryn]

Actually if you compress light enough it becomes matter (See E=MC squared) so its basically one of the tiniest forms of matter and acts as a wave because that's what liquid and many tiny bits of matter act as. In fact all matter can be seen as a wave that moves super slow (or has gigantic dips and rises) its just not measurable by our instruments right now.

Scientists will find this out pretty soon though...

Um, no.

 

[pemerton]

Hit points have to *always* be at least partly meat if only to allow one simple long-standing mechanic to function: poisoned weapons.

That doesn't require that hp damage be meat-ablation on any occasions other than when poison is actually delivered. In his DMG, Gygax tells us that we can work this out after the saving throw is rolled. Schroedinger's wounds in AD&D!

As for DoaM, the touch-AC idea above is a brilliant compromise

It has at least two issues: it requires introducing a new stat into the game; it compiclates the look-up time for adjudicating the attack.

Look at the amount of effort Tolkien put into world building

Other than the languages, which bits?

The history makes no sense. The economy makes no sense. It's all just stipulated, based on the mixture of legendary examples that Tolkien found interesting.