HUGE problem with governing! (PLEASE HELP!)

[Anubis]

I'm trying to use Fields of Blood with my Greyhawk Campaign, but after reading all the rules, I've determined that the rulesets are completely incompatible. That pisses me off royally, considering Fields of Blood claims to be compatible with any style of game.

Problem number one is the whole 12-mile-wide hex crap. Just mapping out Sterich would take two whole sheets of hex paper doing that! In addition, a province (one hex) has to have a community in order to be considered controlled, meaning Sterich would have Istivin plus about 500 little towns and villages all over the place. Lastly, the governing style upkeep eats up outrageous numbers of RPs if you control more than 10 provinces, meaning Sterich (and every other country on the Flanaess as well) would never be able to do anything thanks to the ridiculous governing upkeep costs being at 70% or 80%.

I'm sure everyone sees the problem. First, Greyhawk realms don't have anywhere near that many communities. Sterich has maybe a half dozen, not 500. Second, they're all relatively small realms based on what I've read. Hell, the entire Flanaess is about the size of China and that's about it.

I can't figure out how to get Fields of Blood to work at all. On that note, does anyone know any free FULLY 3.5 COMPATIBLE rules for rulership and war that are in-depth yet simple and realistic and able to work under any style of campaign? HELP!

 

[Baron Opal]

Check out Cry Havoc by Malhavoc Press. I havent read it completely, but if you are looking for mass combat warfare it would be helpful for you. I don't think it has much on noble power structures.

Baron Opal

 

[Anubis]

I'm looking for mass combat AND rulership, actually. In fact, I don't have any problems with the mass combat system in Fields of Blood. That seems to be the only part that holds up in practice. My problem is the damn 12-mile-wide hex use. I'm sorry, but I don't have thousands of sheets of hex paper to map out the Flanaess, and Empires do not generally have tens of thousands of communities; certainly not a community every 12 miles.

 

[Baron Opal]

Thinking about it some more, you can also check out the Magical Mideval Europe supplements by Expeditous Retreat Press. Those do have some guidelines about power structures. They're better for Town / Baronial level, however, I don't think they cover kingdom-wide power structures.

Baron Opal

 

[tarchon]

Could you just make the hexes bigger?

 

[Anubis]

I thought about it, but I'm thinking that would goof up the game mechanics and would make most kingdoms seem "poor". That and movement on the field would be mucked up badly.

Hmmm . . .

 

[S'mon]

I think you better just suck it up and use 30-mile hexes.

Greyhawk suffers from too big a scale relative to population sizes for a 'medieval' setting, which is what Fields of Blood is apparently trying to convey. Hmm - one thing you could do is map out a "core Sterich" region according to FoB (with population at least 40/square mile, about the medieval minimum for settled land) and assume the rest is basically uninhabited wilderness. I think that might fit EGG's original vision fairly well too, though multiplying population figures by x5 or x10 wouldn't hurt either.

 

[S'mon]

IMC I use pretty abstract governing rules - an area produces typically 5sp a month per person in taxable revenue, of which about 1sp/person is likely to find its way to the ruler's military budget, possibly more in tightly controlled unitary realms. Professional troops cost around 12-20gp/month per soldier to maintain - 12gp would keep a single heavy infantryman, 20gp is a good figure for overall average cost/man of a balanced army with cavalry, archers et al, so a typical realm can maintain 1 soldier per 200 of population; a kingdom of 5 million would have on average 25,000 men-at-arms; in war time this can be bulked up with peasant levies, mercenaries etc.

 

[S'mon]

Empires do not generally have tens of thousands of communities; certainly not a community every 12 miles.

Historically empires certainly do have tens of thousands of communities*, and in settled areas you would typically get a village every 2-4 miles. 12 miles is an extreme figure for distance between settlements, you might get that in remote mountainous regions like the Scottish Highlands but in D&D terms those would be "tribal/wilderness" type areas, not settled feudal lands.

*Even taking the World of Greyhawk - the Great Kingdom's population in the 1983 boxed set is given as 5 million, if the average community size is 200 (allowing for towns & cities) that makes 25,000 communities.

 

[billd91]

Historically empires certainly do have tens of thousands of communities*, and in settled areas you would typically get a village every 2-4 miles. 12 miles is an extreme figure for distance between settlements, you might get that in remote mountainous regions like the Scottish Highlands but in D&D terms those would be "tribal/wilderness" type areas, not settled feudal lands.

*Even taking the World of Greyhawk - the Great Kingdom's population in the 1983 boxed set is given as 5 million, if the average community size is 200 (allowing for towns & cities) that makes 25,000 communities.

That's right. There would tend to be a lot of small communities packed in near the towns and cities marked on the GH maps and as you reach a greater radius from these centers, the density of town placement would drop off. The Warhammer Fantasy Roleplaying rules by Games Workshop (I'm not sure which edition if there's more than one) had a very good explanation of this in it's game master section.

So would Sterich have about 500 little towns? Probably. But most would be within a day or two of larger towns or on major routes between towns or on rivers. Or even around the various baronal strongholds and strategically placed castles.

I don't know what the population of Sterich is by current GH reckoning (the LGG is a bit vague on that) but since it is divided up into 7 counties with 3-15 baronies each, that's at least 21 significant political centers, each probably with its own town and then outlying communities around it. None would be any larger than Istivin at 12,100 people since that's the only significant town actually named in the LGG. Exactly what the effects of having refugees from Geoff and the after-effects of being under giantish occupation and then liberation would have on the size and placement of the smaller towns is anybody's guess.