Human Form Dragons

[Kaisoku]

I'm guessing you didn't even read the first reply to this thread (mine).

Polymorph just requires that you change your size modifiers, not remove all stats.
Like I stated in my first reply, a Great Wyrm changing into a Human would have 29 Str, 10 Dex and 21 Con. That's as good as some combat-focused players are 20th level, and it's before any spells or magic items.

3e rules for changing forms was different, in that you got the physical scores of the creature you changed into, so perhaps that's where you are thinking of the "normal human strength".
Double-edged sword: a 5 Str Druid used to be able to change into a terrifyingly scary Polar Bear and ruin the enemies of nature with 27 Str. This has also been removed.

 

[Thanael]

I did read it. But i didn't realize that PF uses alter self for the polymorph(humanoid) spell. Your post made it sound like this was a house rule suggestion.

Another great iprovement on 3.5 by Pathfinder. Go Paizo!

 

[Azmyth]

In the soon to be released, episode 007 of Chronicles, we build an unusual Dragon Disciple in our Character Concept Workshop. We call him the Ice Dragoon.

Don't know if it will suit the OP's needs, but it might inspire some ideas.

Check it out (in a day or two)...

 

[Thanael]

A Great Wyrm (Colossal) turning into a Human (Medium) and then applying the +2 Str bonus from Alter Self, will have the physical stats of Str 29, Dex 10, and Con 21... before any magic items or spells.

Actually the naturally shapechanging dragons (gold, brass, silver) have the change shape ability which allows them to use alter self or beast shape II to change into humanoid or animal forms, but the creature does not adjust its ability scores (although it gains any other abilities of the creature it mimics). Retaining their Dragon ability scores is still impressive.

 

[Kaisoku]

Yeah, if you are using the Changeshape ability instead of the spell Alter Self. If you use the spell, you do need to change (such as when a Red Dragon decides to mess around with a nearby city).

There's also the line in the change shape ability about how you supposedly can't change into anything one size smaller or larger. However, if I recall correctly, there's a post on the Paizo forums where a developer states that the intention is that the specific (any animal or humanoid) overrides the general rule (listed in the universal monster rules).
So hopefully that means Colossal Great Wyrms can change into SOMETHING (since I don't know of many gargantuan animals and humanoids... giants peak at Huge, and animals allow maybe a dinosaur or two).

*Edit*
For this particular case (the gold dragon), a 43 Strength humanoid should be it's own tip off that something is up.

 

[Gfreak2x9]

Hey guys I know that this thread is old but this is the closest thing that I could find, so here I go! I wanted to add a dragon in disguise to my campaign, but I don't know how to make it legit with rules! I'm going to include some back story on the region just to help put things in perspective. If you don't care to read it please just skip ahead…

Back Story
The region is called “The Vale of Balderton.” Balderton is a small town to the south with a population of near 2,000. Humans and Dwarves co-exist very well in this community due to the fact that a large Dwarven Keep not far to the north. The region itself had patches of forest that are quite large but as a whole, the area is a mostly plains and valleys with a large lake to the east, and mountains to the north, west, and south. About 30 years ago the largest forested area was destroyed during a war with barbaric Orc tribes. The tribes united under one powerful chief who sought to lay low Balderton and the Dwarven Keep. At this time the Dwarves and Humans were on good terms, but when faced with a common enemy took up arms together. With the combined might of the Dwarves and Humans the Orcs suffred a crushing defeat. The forest the Orcs had taken migrated too was burned to the ground by the other races to ensure that any Orc who may have escaped their fury died in the blaze. The area that was once the largest forest is now referred to as “The Ruin” by the locals. Superstitious folk believe the place is cursed; the idea is encouraged by the small (7 total members) group of Druids living near Balderton who believe burning the forest upset the balance of all things in the area. It has been 30 years since the war ended, and now we come to the present time were the campaign begins. END

SKIP TO HERE
…The party has been doing various quests in the Vale of Balderton, and has recently reached level two! When they gain another few levels I wanted to add a Green Dragon in disguise! The dragon would be cursed (most likely the Pathfinder equivalent to Geez Quest) to walk the earth in human form until He/She helps a human settlement defeat a great enemy. I wanted to have the dragon join the party as a young human (with stunning green eyes being one of few hints as to what He/She is). Once the party has defeated the main villains in the area (with the help of the green Dragon), the dragon’s curse would be lifted! Immediately making the new primary focus of the campaign to slay the Green Dragon who wishes to lair in one of the nearby forest!

Is this whole dragon in disguise thing legit? Are there any hoops for me to jump through? If someone could please help me out I would really appreciate it! Thanks

 

[Savage Wombat]

I never formally created rules for it, but I always wanted to build a feat that allowed a dragon to create a special "human form" that would let them keep more of their innate abilities, at the cost of limiting their ability to impersonate any human they chose.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

In the Dresden Files, they encounter one dragon in human form. Harry realizes it's a dragon because it breathes smoke from its nostrils without a cigarette.

I vaguely recall reading an old D&D supplement where a group of dragons had "colonized" a human city, all in disguise. One was a while dragon with very poor shapeshifting skills, who could only look like an albino.

 

[Starfox]

A Great Wyrm (Colossal) turning into a Human (Medium) and then applying the +2 Str bonus from Alter Self, will have the physical stats of Str 29, Dex 10, and Con 21... before any magic items or spells.

For creatures starting at size other than Small/Medium, you first change their attributes to account for the size change to Medium, then apply the modifiers form the transformation spell.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/cor...-schools/classic-arcane-schools/transmutation

The end result is still impressive, but not quote as outrageous.

 

[MarkB]

The PF Alter Self spell is a bit odd compared to the 3.5e version. Back in 3.5e it was the most minimal Polymorph effect, requiring you to assume a form of the same type as yourself - and in Pathfinder it's the same, if you're starting out humanoid.

But in the hands of any other creature type it's a very low-cost "imitate humanoid" spell. When given to a dragon or demon or other such monstrous creature, it seems rather too powerful for its level. I can't help wondering whether that was the intent, or if the authors just didn't think in terms of non-humanoid casters.