Human Monks can take Improved Natural Attack?

[Storyteller01]

A repeat question, but here goes:

Can a Giant, Doppelganger, or othe creature that can use an unarmed attack (slam) to deal damage take this feat?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Can a Giant use the feat for their slam attacks?

Absolutely! A slam is a natural weapon. An unarmed strike isn't.

Even if they'd look awfully similar when you made the movie, the mechanics define them as different things.

The bard says "Grok punched Jon, and Jon punched Grok back", but Grok is making a slam attack (a natural weapon), and Jon is using an unarmed strike (not a natural weapon).

Saying "What applies to one applies to the other, 'cos they're both punches!" is ignoring the fact that slams and unarmed strikes follow different rules.

-Hyp.

 

[Artoomis]

Tsk tsk! Artoomis, not particularly classy to say that someone else's poll is closed when it isn't. :\ On the other hand, I do support starting your own poll rather then criticizing someone else's.

I voted that a human monk can take the feat by RAW, since I have seen nothing indicating that you have to start off with the natural weapon to qualify for the feat. I would also apply this ruling to elves, gnomes, dwarves, and any other race that didn't normal have a natural weapon. I wouldn't argue with a GM who wouldn't allow them to have it based on the feat being in the Monster Manual.

P.S. - Did you intend to allow people to vote for more then one answer?

Sorry - I did not mean the other poll, I meant the closed 8-page thread, and I wanted to not only provide a bit f a different poll, but also another forum for free and open discussions of this rule, since the 8-page thread got closed.

As for the multiple-selection voting, yes, I intended that. It does make analysis of the votes somewhat problematic, but it's ludicrously unscientific anyway, so what the heck.

 

[Storyteller01]

So what is it when two giants (or any critter with the same effect) are slamming each other? They follow the same progression as an unarmed attack (roll to hit/apply damage)...

 

[Hypersmurf]

So what is it when two giants (or any critter with the same effect) are slamming each other?

Slams are natural weapons.

-Hyp.

 

[TheEvil]

Sorry - I did not mean the other poll, I meant the closed 8-page thread, and I wanted to not only provide a bit f a different poll, but also another forum for free and open discussions of this rule, since the 8-page thread got closed.

As for the multiple-selection voting, yes, I intended that. It does make analysis of the votes somewhat problematic, but it's ludicrously unscientific anyway, so what the heck.

Thanks for clarifying, I was feeling rather slighted.
As for problematic results, I say not at all! It is currently running 90.92% For, 19.09% Against. What could be clearer?

Okay, what may seem like a side question, but trust me that it is applicable to the discussion. Do you consider Mithral armor to be a catagory lighter? e.g.- is Mithral Full Plate medium armor for ALL purposes, including proficiency?

 

[Caliban]

Thanks for clarifying, I was feeling rather slighted.
As for problematic results, I say not at all! It is currently running 90.92% For, 19.09% Against. What could be clearer?

Okay, what may seem like a side question, but trust me that it is applicable to the discussion. Do you consider Mithral armor to be a catagory lighter? e.g.- is Mithral Full Plate medium armor for ALL purposes, including proficiency?

Yes.

 

[Stalker0]

I went 2 and 3. I believed they could by my reading of the rules...but I could be swayed either way. But with the sage ruling, I'm firmly in the yes court.

 

[FireLance]

Okay, what may seem like a side question, but trust me that it is applicable to the discussion. Do you consider Mithral armor to be a catagory lighter? e.g.- is Mithral Full Plate medium armor for ALL purposes, including proficiency?

Races of the Wild lists it as medium armor, so it is medium armor by the RAW even if it is not explicitly stated in the Core Rules. The Sage also clarifies that it is treated as medium armor for the purpose of proficiency in Dragon #335 (it will probably make it into the FAQ soon if it hasn't already), so it's also the official stand.

I personally don't like the idea, so when I'm DMing, I houserule that you need Heavy Armor Proficiency to be proficient in Mithral Full Plate.

 

[Pinotage]

I voted 2 and 3. Basically I agree with Scion.

Pinotage