Human Monks can take Improved Natural Attack?

[Scion]

Is there any feat a fighter can take that increases his base damage by 50%?

As I have said in most, if not all, of these threads there is a direct corallary: Exotic weapon proficiency.

Generally the exotic weapon is 'better' somehow than the martial counterpart. One of the ways that it can be better is having an increased damage die.

That looks exactly the same to me.

Each has a tradeoff of course. The fighter type will have to choose his feats around the weapon but in return he can choose from a number of different benefits depending on which weapon he goes with. The monk will only ever get the damage increase, but he can choose it just about anytime in his carear from level 6 onwards.

Of course, the fighter can get the benefit from level 1 whereas the monk has to wait until at least level 6 (unless multiclassed in specific ways of course). Tradeoffs again.

 

[Scion]

Sure it does. Going from 1d8 to 2d8 is exactly double the damage.

Gah, triple post, but they are all seperate thoughts ;/ Sorry all.

Are you looking at the correct table infiniti? There is the monk chart which assumes medium, and then there is another chart which shows small and large next to one another.

At level 4 it shows the monks d8 going to 2d6, just like the monster advancement rules for size.

Table: Increased Damage By Size
Old Damage (Each)* New Damage
1d2 1d3
1d3 1d4
1d4 1d6
1d6 1d8
1d8 2d6
1d10 2d8
2d6 3d6
2d8 3d8

 

[dcollins]

Having read all the previous arguments, I voted "No, not per the Rules as Written (RAW)".

Technically, there is ambiguity. Ambiguous situations are in fact what Sage rulings are meant to help with with. However, for me the deciding factor is that the feat appears in the MM, and frankly I don't want the power of PC monks in my campaign to be dependent on players being cunning enough to turn to the MM to dig up this feat.

If it's not in the PHB then it's not something that monk players are able to reference, RAW.

 

[Infiniti2000]

What are you talking about?

A human monk does a specific unarmed strike damage according to the monk's table. It goes 1d6->1d8, etc., changing at different levels. I was postulating that when a human monk takes INA, it changes the unarmed strike damage (to some higher value). Regardless of what it changes to, when the monk progresses in his class, his unarmed strike damage becomes what it says in the table, just like with BAB and base saves. The table is not cumulative for the damage. Do you understand my point? You may disagree, I'm okay with that, but I want you to at least understand it.

 

[Scion]

Having read all the previous arguments, I voted "No, not per the Rules as Written (RAW)".

Technically, there is ambiguity. Ambiguous situations are in fact what Sage rulings are meant to help with with. However, for me the deciding factor is that the feat appears in the MM, and frankly I don't want the power of PC monks in my campaign to be dependent on players being cunning enough to turn to the MM to dig up this feat.

If it's not in the PHB then it's not something that monk players are able to reference, RAW.

That sounds, to me, almost exactly like the last choice there dcollins. 'yes, but I dissalow it in my games'.

After all, just because you dont allow the players to pick feats from the monstrous manual (which I do not understand at all, considering the various classes which can use them in interesting, and not unbalancing, ways) does not mean that it is not part of the raw.

It helps the monks deal damage yes, but that is all. It isnt necissary for them to take nor is it unbalancing when they do. Unless you also consider weapon specialization and/or exotic weapon proficiency to be equally unbalanced.

 

[Dimwhit]

Technically, there is ambiguity. Ambiguous situations are in fact what Sage rulings are meant to help with with. However, for me the deciding factor is that the feat appears in the MM, and frankly I don't want the power of PC monks in my campaign to be dependent on players being cunning enough to turn to the MM to dig up this feat.

If it's not in the PHB then it's not something that monk players are able to reference, RAW.

Actually, there are many feats in the MM intended to be allowed by classes. The feats improving spell-like abilities, for one. Just because a feat is in the MM doesn't mean they are intended for monsters only, anymore that feats in Complete Warrior being intended only for classes in that book. If the feat has the [General] tag, is was designed to be used by anyone or anything.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Are you looking at the correct table infiniti?

Yes, but I missed a line. Ignore my comments on this, please.

 

[Scion]

A human monk does a specific unarmed strike damage according to the monk's table. It goes 1d6->1d8, etc., changing at different levels. I was postulating that when a human monk takes INA, it changes the unarmed strike damage (to some higher value). Regardless of what it changes to, when the monk progresses in his class, his unarmed strike damage becomes what it says in the table, just like with BAB and base saves. The table is not cumulative for the damage. Do you understand my point? You may disagree, I'm okay with that, but I want you to at least understand it.

So if I have weapon focus in longswords and then get a longsword +1 my weapon focus no longer works? Or, even better, enlarge person. The sword damage die changed, so the feat must no longer apply by your logic.

After all, that is essentially the same progression. You are saying that because some amount of damage changed then all of a sudden my feats turn off.

it doesnt matter 'what' value the monks table says. he is a monk of level X as far as it is concerned and of size Y (where Y is one higher than his actual size) and so he deals damage Z.

So no, I do not understand your point. You appear to be saying that the feat goes away somehow or becomes moot because the damage changed. But that is completely immaterial.

The feat says to treat as though one size category larger. So why would you assume that when you go up a level you drop back down to the smaller table for advancement? Why cant you simply follow along the new sizes advancement chart?

Or even if you couldnt do that why does the feat suddenly turn off?? The monk now does a different damage die than before, but the ability is still the same, and the feat says to treat him as one size category larger. Done and done, they do not conflict at all.

 

[Scion]

Actually, there are many feats in the MM intended to be allowed by classes. The feats improving spell-like abilities, for one. Just because a feat is in the MM doesn't mean they are intended for monsters only, anymore that feats in Complete Warrior being intended only for classes in that book. If the feat has the [General] tag, is was designed to be used by anyone or anything.

Plus, there isnt infinite space in the phb so some things must be shunted elsewhere.

Or at least that is what they told us

 

[burnrate]

Of course - by the RAW and as clarified by the sage.