Hustle + Spring Attack= Problem

[undeaddan]

In my last session I had a player pull the following manuever on me.

Run in, Full Attack, Run Away. I called him on it and he came back with an explanation that hustle + spring attack allowed him to do this.

Talking with him afterward I got a little more clarity.

Hustle (psionic power from the XPH) gives you an extra move action in addition to anything including a full round action (like charge). He is taking that extra move action and splitting it via Spring Attack and sticking a full round attack in the middle.

Some of my other players, esp the fighter, have complained that he now makes them look like chumps in battle.

Can those of you with a little more experience and fuller knowledge of the Psionics rules analyze this combo a bit? As far as I can tell it's legal.

Thanks,

Dan

 

[Diirk]

Benefit: When using the attack action with a melee weapon, you can move both before and after the attack, provided that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed. Moving in this way does not provoke an attack of opportunity from the defender you attack, though it might provoke attacks of opportunity from other creatures, if appropriate. You can’t use this feat if you are wearing heavy armor.

You must move at least 5 feet both before and after you make your attack in order to utilize the benefits of Spring Attack.

The full attack action is very different to the attack action... and as it doesn't say you can take a full attack action, you can't. How's that ?

 

[Henrix]

Like Diirk says, you can make an attack action while using spring attack. Not a full attack.

 

[Sejs]

Attack and Full Attack are two different actions, and thus not interchangable. Spring Attack states that it is used with the Attack action, it does not state "when you attack". The difference is important.

There are ways to move and Full Attack, namely Pounce, but those are achieved in other ways. Hustle + Spring Attack doesn't work in the manner your player thinks it does. Hustle + Psionic Lion's Charge would be more of what he's looking for.


Sejs: solving problems and creating new ones at the same time.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

Can hustle be used for a move-equivelent action or just a move? I had a player who kept wanting to use it to regain his focus (in conjunction with that feat that makes it a move-equivelent action instead of a standard)...

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Let me see if I've got this right...

He's got Hustle working, which grants him +1 Move actions per round.

He says, "I've got spring attack, which allows a Move-Attack-Move combination." Assuming 30' of movement:

1. Move 15' (Half of a Move action)
2. Attack once (Standard action)
3. Move 15' (Half of a Move action)

So, again assuming 30' of movement, he wants to extend this to:

1. Move 15' (Half of a Move action)
2. Full attack (Full-round action)
3. Move 15' (Half of a Move action)

Nice try on the player's part, but it doesn't work. Why?

Two reasons:

1. Spring Attack doesn't allow this. Specifically, the Spring Attack feat only works when using the Attack action, which is a standard action. Because of this, it cannot be combined with a Full Attack (a Full-round action).

When using the attack action with a melee weapon, you can move both before and after the attack, provided that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed.

2. Hustle doesn't allow it. It specifically gives you one additional Move action on your turn. It does not grant any other benefits, and in fact specifically mentions full-attacking and moving away as still provoking AoOs:

You gain an additional move action in the current round. Taking a full round’s worth of attacks and then using this power to move away from your foe does provoke attacks of opportunity.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Can hustle be used for a move-equivelent action or just a move? I had a player who kept wanting to use it to regain his focus (in conjunction with that feat that makes it a move-equivelent action instead of a standard)...

Just a move, not a Move-equivalent action.

 

[Chorn]

Can hustle be used for a move-equivelent action or just a move? I had a player who kept wanting to use it to regain his focus (in conjunction with that feat that makes it a move-equivelent action instead of a standard)...

Hustle gives you a move action. 3.5 folded both move-equivalents and regular moves into one category. So it's perfectly legal to use hustle to regain psionic focus assuming the character has the Psychic Meditation feat.

 

[Someone]

Hustle + Psionic Lion's Charge would be more of what he's looking for.

Sejs: solving problems and creating new ones at the same time.

They are both Swift actions to manifest, so no.

 

[FireLance]

Full Attack + Hustle to move away or Hustle to move + Full attack is legal, but remember that provokes an AOO if he moves out of a threatened square. Of course, if he has Spring Attack, he has Mobility, and that's +4 AC against AOOs provoked by moving.

Of course, if he has the skill, he can use Tumble to avoid the AOO also.

The other players, especially the fighter, sound a bit whiny. Are they not optimizing their characters enough?