Hybrid Character Playtest

[keterys]

Sounds almost entirely like a perception thing rather than a factual thing, then.

 

[Eric Finley]

On the RRoT matter: Given the widespread perception that RRoT is hideously broken, though, you might want to first-order-approximate a fix by offering that instead of an auto-crit, he get (say) a 17-20 crit range on that attack. Still probably more powerful than comparable abilities, but a big enough step in the right direction that when (not if) they patch that feat, it'll be a slight change instead of a massive wallop to his effectiveness.

 

[invokethehojo]

So I have played my hybrid character twice now, once with version 1 and once with the new updates. I made an Eladrin Warlord/Wizard. I took the hybrid talent feat to gain tactical presence which allows me to take full use of my 18 intelligence (also have 18 str and 14 charisma, my dex is an 8, even with racial adjustments). My plan is to take the Wizard of the Spiral Tower paragon path so I can use my longsword as my implement. Here is how the character has worked out.

The cons
- My AC isn't so hot, at 4th level I'm rocking a 19, but my other defenses aren't far behind so I"m well rounded.
- My hp would suck but my DM is letting us use the scales of war backgrounds so I took born under a bad sign which lets me use my highest ability score instead of con for HP. I didn't feel too comfortable with this at first but the characters past actually fit it perfectly.
without this i would be hurting
- I've spent all my feats so far just making up for the weaknesses of being a hybrid.

The pros
Picking and choosing powers carefully has made me believe this character is the most generally useful character I've ever seen.
- I took opening shove for my warlord at will so when I'm in melee I can push away someone I can't handle and get out of there and let someone else attack him (great with 2 defenders in my party), or let an ally shift 4 squares to get them out of hot water.
- All my wizard powers are bursts or blasts and are geared towards killing: scorching burst, fire shroud, and soon fireball. I can hurt a lot of guys quickly
- I took warlord powers that use my high int (warlords favor, lead the attack) so I'm helping my allies take down the toughest foes quick. After I soften em up with wizard powers I can pick off the tough ones with warlord powers.
- the fey step allows me to get in quick to heal an ally or get out of melee after I've messed someone up so the defenders can mop up.
- I also took cloak of the walking wounded and I buy healing potions so I don't have to waste my healing powers on myself.

I've had some amazing rounds with this character. I help my party be more effective, but I'm still effective myself (just buffing others does not sound like fun to me). Also, I built him knowing that my friend would be playing a tempest fighter, and we work as a team most of the time (to great effect).

I've also seen a player that is still new to the game (and does not learn quickly at all... I mean you Shay) make two hybrids that just blew. As long as you build a hybrid carefully they can rule. Basing your powers around good tactics is esential. I built mine around having something useful for any situation and it has worked perfectly.

 

[Eldorian]

Playing a sorcerer with rogue multiclass right now, going to remake him as a sorcerer rogue hybrid and play him next session, see if it's broken.

Well, just played my sorcerer/rogue hybrid. He's not broken, but he's very good. The only sorcerer stuff given up by hybridization is the +1 ac or make a save every round wild magic thing, and the stuff that happens on a 20 and on a 1. Honestly, I don't really miss those, because I forgot about the first one and the second one was annoying more often than useful.

The hybrid is definitely more powerful than the multiclass character I used to be, but that may be because I was working on rogue stuff before I went hybrid.

The rogue powers definitely shore up some flaws in the sorcerer's game, namely single target damage other than the totally awesome demon soul bolts, which is my paragon path power. Btw, my paragon path is demonskin adapt. Yes, I realize that daggermaster might be mechanically better, but the variable resist, the level 11 and 20 powers, and the +3 to everyone in the party's attacks after I action point are very good.

Overall, I'm pretty happy with the hybrid option so far.

 

[Lucas Blackstone]

I personally think the whole hybrid system is stupid for a game based on characters have a niche/role to fill. In general, assuming you pick the right powers and not bad ones, I think it's also overpowered. It doesn't make sense for a cleric to lose 1 healing word, but suddenly have access to striker powers. That's not really balanced. I liked the multiclass system because to work outside your role cost you something. Not it's kind of a joke and you just pick all the min max powers between two classes with basically no penalty.

Of course all the hybrid fans will claim it is balanced and all that but I still had to speak my mind about it one time.

 

[fuzzlewump]

I personally think the whole hybrid system is stupid for a game based on characters have a niche/role to fill. In general, assuming you pick the right powers and not bad ones, I think it's also overpowered. It doesn't make sense for a cleric to lose 1 healing word, but suddenly have access to striker powers. That's not really balanced.

Well, my suggestion is to be the party's only healer and try your "overpowered" idea of being a hybrid cleric/striker. That one healing word + additional healing powers you have to give for half striker powers start looking a whole lot sweeter. As far as niches/roles, the theory is that you'll only fill half of your role or niche, and I'll say the system is innocent until proven guilty as far as that is concerned.

There are, however, some builds I'm concerned about as far as balance, like the rogue/ranger which looks for free/minor/interrupt/etc actions in order to get sneak attack + quarry in the same turn mentioned earlier in this thread.

 

[Cwheeler]

I personally think the whole hybrid system is stupid for a game based on characters have a niche/role to fill. In general, assuming you pick the right powers and not bad ones, I think it's also overpowered. It doesn't make sense for a cleric to lose 1 healing word, but suddenly have access to striker powers. That's not really balanced. I liked the multiclass system because to work outside your role cost you something. Not it's kind of a joke and you just pick all the min max powers between two classes with basically no penalty.

Of course all the hybrid fans will claim it is balanced and all that but I still had to speak my mind about it one time.

I actually like hybrid because it gives me access to so many more character concepts. One of the big weaknesses for 4e (for me) was the feeling of being shoehorned into a rather limited archetype. Now, I feel far more free to play with it; To think up a character idea and then figure out a class structure to fit it, rather than the other way round.

Sure, it probably needs some tweaking, and may manage to spit out some overpowered and underpowered characters, but I think it's a step in the right direction.

(I'd just like a way to get access to more hybrid talent features. Personally, I don't think one is enough..)

 

[invokethehojo]

I personally think the whole hybrid system is stupid for a game based on characters have a niche/role to fill. In general, assuming you pick the right powers and not bad ones, I think it's also overpowered. It doesn't make sense for a cleric to lose 1 healing word, but suddenly have access to striker powers. That's not really balanced. I liked the multiclass system because to work outside your role cost you something. Not it's kind of a joke and you just pick all the min max powers between two classes with basically no penalty.

Of course all the hybrid fans will claim it is balanced and all that but I still had to speak my mind about it one time.

I can't speak on whether the whole system is balanced or not, the characters I've seen are but we have small parties so people are building to try to fill in roles for the party, not min max. It's sure nice when you only have 4 people to have someone playing a leader/controller.

and I agree with Cwheeler, it allows for a non cookie-cutter type character. You can really do something different. I'm sure in the end the final rules will be balance, until then it's up to the DM to limit broken characters

The next character I want to try: Telebot- Eladrin Rogue/feylock hybrid talent misty step. I know most people would do this for the eyebite/sneak attack combo, but I see it as a more tactical approach to getting sneak attack. Curse lots of dudes, when they die teleport into flanking (or sneaking) and then get sneak attack. Combined with Eladrin fey step and other Warlock teleport powers you could be the most mobile character ever... which I think would rule.

or, wait for the rules for Monk hybrid... monk/feylock (misty step) = nightcrawler.

 

[Cwheeler]

The next character I want to try: Telebot- Eladrin Rogue/feylock hybrid talent misty step. I know most people would do this for the eyebite/sneak attack combo, but I see it as a more tactical approach to getting sneak attack. Curse lots of dudes, when they die teleport into flanking (or sneaking) and then get sneak attack. Combined with Eladrin fey step and other Warlock teleport powers you could be the most mobile character ever... which I think would rule.

Hehe. I've been wanting to try something similar: a gnome rogue/darklock, with hybrid talent: pact boon as the feet. There's just something appealing about slipping about with deft strike, cursing and many people as possible, then letting off a cursebite to charge up your darkspiral aura... It may not be the most practical character ever (don't know until I've played it), but damn it'd be fun and characterful!

(I must admit though, the telebot does sound like a lot of fun..)

I'd just love to take shadow walk for my gnome as well, without having to paragon multiclass. How broken can taking Hybrid Talent multiple times be? More class abilities to trade off for feats? doesn't sound too bad to me: both options have advantages, and it could make for some interesting choices and characters.

 

[Azdel]

I'm looking into a Goliath Warden/Barbarian for an upcoming campaign, taking advantage of Str/Con for both insane amounts of survival skills and great damage. Not a whole lot of strategy, but an incredible tank, though I haven't played it yet to be sure.