fuzzlewump
Explorer
I believe the complaints are centered upon illusion attacks doing damage in 4E because some believe they should have only non-damaging effects, or at least tend strongly toward non-damaging effects, as 3E illusion spells do.
Hybrid D&D: Combining editions (especially 3E and 4E)
- Thread starter Mercurius
- Start date
amnuxoll
First Post
Just as a follow-up: I have a complete and well-playtested rule-set that can I think is just the hybrid that the OP was asking for:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/299297-introducing-enlightened-grognard.html
:AMN:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/299297-introducing-enlightened-grognard.html
:AMN:
I started creating my own "5th Edition" just for fun but got bogged down and quit. It was a mixture of everything I enjoyed about all DnD editions.
Things I included:
Ascending AC
Defenses instead of Saving Throws
3E type skill building
Powers (for high level characters only, lvl 12+)
Multiple spell attacks for low level Wizards
Minions
Rituals (for non-combat spells)
Rounds/Turns timekeeping
Rolling for HP after 1st level
Using PR bonus for spellcasting modifiers
D20 initiative
Things I got rid of:
Surges
Temp HP
Grossly high starting HP
Powers (for mid to low lvl characters)
Every class being equal in combat ability
Things I included:
Ascending AC
Defenses instead of Saving Throws
3E type skill building
Powers (for high level characters only, lvl 12+)
Multiple spell attacks for low level Wizards
Minions
Rituals (for non-combat spells)
Rounds/Turns timekeeping
Rolling for HP after 1st level
Using PR bonus for spellcasting modifiers
D20 initiative
Things I got rid of:
Surges
Temp HP
Grossly high starting HP
Powers (for mid to low lvl characters)
Every class being equal in combat ability
amnuxoll
First Post
fumetti: What you're describing is very very close what I've created. Please try it. I'd enjoy your feedback.
Roadkill101
Explorer
I put together a Hybrid D&D edition for myself this past summer with some house-rule additions/tweaks. I haven't fully playtested it, it was something I put together to run when feeling a bit nostalgic to run some D&D when not running my usual system. A quick rundown follows.
Stats are generated roll 4d6, reroll any 1's and keep the highest 3 results, generate six numbers and assign as desired. Using the 4E stat bonus/penalty ranges.
Race and Class are as in the old red Basic box set, using BECMI xp tables with a level 10 cap (demi-humans are not level restricted below 10th). Racial stat bonus/penalties tweaked slightly.
HD and HP are not determined by Race/Class but by size. Small creatures use a d6, medium a d8, large a d10, etc. Incorporated a Wound/Vitality system such that 1stand 2nd levels are Wounds, the more damaged sustained the greater all actions are penalized. All con bonus/penalties apply to wounds. Every level above 2nd level is Vitality, which are lost first, except for any critical hits (i.e natural 20) which apply directly to Wounds. Unconsciousness at 0 or lower HP, Death at -Con value.
Class/Race use the 4e skill system with each having 1 or 2 assigned trained skills and a choice of 3 or 4 more to be chosen as trained. Racial abilities tweaked to fit in as being trained under conditional circumstances.
Multi/Dual classing does not exist, came up with what I call Crossover Packages, each character gets to choose from at every 3rd level, granting different spell list (i.e. druidical or illussionist) and/or several more skills now considered to be trained.
Using weapons proficiencies from 1e/2e in combination with the 3x BAB and level dependency. Picking up a new weapon proficiency at 4th level for a fighter has a BAB of +1 with that weapon, not +4, which increases to a BAB of +2 at level 5. Weapons are broken up into categories: Simple 1 Handed, Simple, 2 Handed, Martial 1 Handed, Martial 2 Handed, Simple Ranged and Martial Ranged, doing 1d6, 1d8, 1d10, 1d12, 1d8 and 1d10 damage respectively, Class/Race will affect which weapon categories are available.
Saves are taken from 3e with assigned values at 1st level per 3e by class. Higher levels award 2 points to be assigned to whichever save the player chooses (or split between 2 different saves).
Using ascending AC from 3e, but tweaked the armors available and their value.
Magic is greatly tweaked. Casters are more less similiar to the 3x sorcerer, using a mana/faith point system (Clerics can't cast until 2nd level) using Int or Wis bonus/penalties as modifiers to the number of points available. A spells level dictates how many points it costs to cast the spell, points are regained upon 8 hours of rest and a 1 hour meditation/study period. All spells taken from the 1e PHB only. Clerics pray for the spell, Magic User's/Elves can only use spells recorded in their spell book (unless read from a scroll, using a device). To add a spell to a spellbook, Magic Users/Elves must use the "% to know spell" from the 1e Intelligience table, if they fail, they have to wait to gain a level to try again. All damage/healing is at 1d8 per caster level be it divine or arcane. Class/Race does affect what spell list a character knows (Elves get the MU and Druidical lists to choose from to start, all other classes must take a Crossover Package to open up anything but the basic class list).
For everything else, I try to stick with the BECMI rules for their simplicity.
Stats are generated roll 4d6, reroll any 1's and keep the highest 3 results, generate six numbers and assign as desired. Using the 4E stat bonus/penalty ranges.
Race and Class are as in the old red Basic box set, using BECMI xp tables with a level 10 cap (demi-humans are not level restricted below 10th). Racial stat bonus/penalties tweaked slightly.
HD and HP are not determined by Race/Class but by size. Small creatures use a d6, medium a d8, large a d10, etc. Incorporated a Wound/Vitality system such that 1stand 2nd levels are Wounds, the more damaged sustained the greater all actions are penalized. All con bonus/penalties apply to wounds. Every level above 2nd level is Vitality, which are lost first, except for any critical hits (i.e natural 20) which apply directly to Wounds. Unconsciousness at 0 or lower HP, Death at -Con value.
Class/Race use the 4e skill system with each having 1 or 2 assigned trained skills and a choice of 3 or 4 more to be chosen as trained. Racial abilities tweaked to fit in as being trained under conditional circumstances.
Multi/Dual classing does not exist, came up with what I call Crossover Packages, each character gets to choose from at every 3rd level, granting different spell list (i.e. druidical or illussionist) and/or several more skills now considered to be trained.
Using weapons proficiencies from 1e/2e in combination with the 3x BAB and level dependency. Picking up a new weapon proficiency at 4th level for a fighter has a BAB of +1 with that weapon, not +4, which increases to a BAB of +2 at level 5. Weapons are broken up into categories: Simple 1 Handed, Simple, 2 Handed, Martial 1 Handed, Martial 2 Handed, Simple Ranged and Martial Ranged, doing 1d6, 1d8, 1d10, 1d12, 1d8 and 1d10 damage respectively, Class/Race will affect which weapon categories are available.
Saves are taken from 3e with assigned values at 1st level per 3e by class. Higher levels award 2 points to be assigned to whichever save the player chooses (or split between 2 different saves).
Using ascending AC from 3e, but tweaked the armors available and their value.
Magic is greatly tweaked. Casters are more less similiar to the 3x sorcerer, using a mana/faith point system (Clerics can't cast until 2nd level) using Int or Wis bonus/penalties as modifiers to the number of points available. A spells level dictates how many points it costs to cast the spell, points are regained upon 8 hours of rest and a 1 hour meditation/study period. All spells taken from the 1e PHB only. Clerics pray for the spell, Magic User's/Elves can only use spells recorded in their spell book (unless read from a scroll, using a device). To add a spell to a spellbook, Magic Users/Elves must use the "% to know spell" from the 1e Intelligience table, if they fail, they have to wait to gain a level to try again. All damage/healing is at 1d8 per caster level be it divine or arcane. Class/Race does affect what spell list a character knows (Elves get the MU and Druidical lists to choose from to start, all other classes must take a Crossover Package to open up anything but the basic class list).
For everything else, I try to stick with the BECMI rules for their simplicity.
scruffygrognard
Adventurer
TerraDave
5ever, or until 2024
I think this is tempting for a lot of us, so much so that many have actually started it, and some have finished...
It shimmers like a mirage: all the quirky, flavourfull, nostalgic, pulpy fun of past editions but with a much improved chasis building on the latest rules. And of course highly compatible with decades of material.
It does have raise two issues:
1) Actually doing it. This does require delving into a lot of details and a lot of time, and you will find that as you get closer to some goals, others will move farther away.
2) Actually playing it. 3rd parties, ie players, and maybe even yourself when you get some distance, will wonder: "why not just play 4E, or PF, or 3E, or AD&D, or WHFRPG, or MRQ..."
It shimmers like a mirage: all the quirky, flavourfull, nostalgic, pulpy fun of past editions but with a much improved chasis building on the latest rules. And of course highly compatible with decades of material.
It does have raise two issues:
1) Actually doing it. This does require delving into a lot of details and a lot of time, and you will find that as you get closer to some goals, others will move farther away.
2) Actually playing it. 3rd parties, ie players, and maybe even yourself when you get some distance, will wonder: "why not just play 4E, or PF, or 3E, or AD&D, or WHFRPG, or MRQ..."
Mercurius
Legend
Exactly TerraDave, to both of your issues - which is why I haven't really done much in the year since starting this thread! There is also the illusion that "Maybe I shouldn't bother, because the next edition will hybridize the best of every edition for me." Dream on.
This sort of thing isn't high on my "Queue of Creative Things To Do" but I've become a bit more practical in the last year in that my thoughts in this direction have been more about modifying 4E to include aspects that I feel are missing, like my thread on Fate and Magic which started out as a big concept with potentially enormous ramifications and become more of a small-to-moderate adjustment and amendment to the 4E rules, namely expanding Action Points for non-magic characters and having magic-using characters be able to spend healing surges on strengthening their spells.
This sort of thing isn't high on my "Queue of Creative Things To Do" but I've become a bit more practical in the last year in that my thoughts in this direction have been more about modifying 4E to include aspects that I feel are missing, like my thread on Fate and Magic which started out as a big concept with potentially enormous ramifications and become more of a small-to-moderate adjustment and amendment to the 4E rules, namely expanding Action Points for non-magic characters and having magic-using characters be able to spend healing surges on strengthening their spells.
LeStryfe79
First Post
Yeah, I've been hybridizing/ bastardizing stuff for a while now ever since I realized 4e wasn't for me. I'm currently in the process of a revamp, though, since I believe a simpler yet more iconic system for roleplay exists somewhere inside my head. My base is AD&D, although I reversed ThaC0 for various reasons...
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