Hybrid Playtest part 2

[fireinthedust]

I like everything except the Armor Proficiencies. That stinks. Why would a Fighter/Wizard not know how to use leather armor? It makes no sense and surves no reasonable purpose... well, other than tanking with a Warlock ranged-attacker who now can't get hit by AC attacks.
Still, clerics can get away with wearing armor and having ranged attacks. Rangers can wear leather. I don't see how a Controller/Defender would be worse simply because of 2 AC. Especially if it's going to be up front in a fight!!!
heck, the swordmage (fighter/mage analog for 4e) has better armor than that, plus the Aegis bonus!

 

[fissionessence]

Come on, monk hybrid!

I need to build my monk/druid . . .

~

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Some one want to do some math for me here...

Deva Avenger/Swordmage with Armoe of faith AND Warding (+3 each) and the improved feat for armor of faith (+2 at 11th level) and greater swordmage warding (+1 all def) at level 11 (so can have 1 from feat and one from paragon hybrid) start with an 18 in INt and Wis... bump every chance

level 11 with +3 armor +9 classes +5 Int +5 1/2 level is 32...can we get to be unhitable???

at 30th it is worse +8 (+6 starweave)armor +11 class +8 Int (inless demigod) +15 half level...42 AC...upgrade to lethar is +2 more or hide for +3

I see a problem here

 

[Dragonblade]

The major change seems to be the Hybrid Talent Feat which allows you to unlock class features from one of your classes. They now specify whichfeatures you can unlock . For example Fighters Combat Superiority, Armour Proficiency or Combat talent. You seem to able to pick the feat multiple times to unlock other features.

I'm pretty sure you can only take the feat once and thats it. The one exception to that being if you choose the hybrid paragon path. Then you get to take the feat one more time.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Some one want to do some math for me here...

Deva Avenger/Swordmage with Armoe of faith AND Warding (+3 each) and the improved feat for armor of faith (+2 at 11th level) and greater swordmage warding (+1 all def) at level 11 (so can have 1 from feat and one from paragon hybrid) start with an 18 in INt and Wis... bump every chance

level 11 with +3 armor +9 classes +5 Int +5 1/2 level is 32...can we get to be unhitable???

at 30th it is worse +8 (+6 starweave)armor +11 class +8 Int (inless demigod) +15 half level...42 AC...upgrade to lethar is +2 more or hide for +3

I see a problem here

Well, I know that my 9th level Fighter has an AC of 29. He uses a shield and plate armor, of course. It's not really unhittable yet, but it is quite good.
Your AC of 42 at 30th level seems to imply that the AC goes up by around 1 point per level, so how ever easy it is for enemies to hit you at 11th level, it doesn't change for monsters 20 levels higher when you are 20 levels higher.
But maybe you should look for another Epic Destiny that can boost your AC?

But as mentioned, you can't take the Hybrid Talent more than once, unless you pick Paragon a Hybrid Path.

 

[Dannager]

Some one want to do some math for me here...

Deva Avenger/Swordmage with Armoe of faith AND Warding (+3 each) and the improved feat for armor of faith (+2 at 11th level) and greater swordmage warding (+1 all def) at level 11 (so can have 1 from feat and one from paragon hybrid) start with an 18 in INt and Wis... bump every chance

level 11 with +3 armor +9 classes +5 Int +5 1/2 level is 32...can we get to be unhitable???

at 30th it is worse +8 (+6 starweave)armor +11 class +8 Int (inless demigod) +15 half level...42 AC...upgrade to lethar is +2 more or hide for +3

I see a problem here

I don't. Level 30 monsters have about +37 to hit. Even if your hypothetical hybrid character got his AC to 45 he'd still be hit on an attack roll of 8.

32 AC at level 11 is good, but nowhere near unhittable.

 

[FireLance]

I'd say there is a bit of an overlap, though. Armor of Faith and Swordmage Warding either do not function or function less effectively when the PC uses a shield, so the implication is that they are meant to compensate somewhat for not using a shield. Hence, getting both bonuses may be a bit of an overcompensation. Relatively speaking, it's probably most effective at 11th level than at 30th level, though (as has been pointed out).

 

[Mentat55]

The hypothetical avenger|swordmage (with paragon hybrid class) at level 30 has AC 52, not 42. Given that a level 35 monster would have a +40 attack bonus, normally, and this guy is relatively hard to hit.

But...I don't think this is very special. A level 30 fighter/pit fighter/adamantine warrior with plate armor proficiency and specialization (less feat investment that the hybrid avenger|swordmage) has +15 class level, +20 armor (from +6 godplate), +4 misc (from paragon path, epic destiny, and armor spec), and +2 shield = +41, for a 51 AC. Shield specialization would push it to AC 52, and if he has the Dex for shield spec, then agile armor could push his AC up to 55. So yeah, the hybrid class does not create a problem -- if a high AC is a problem, then it already exists.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I don't. Level 30 monsters have about +37 to hit. Even if your hypothetical hybrid character got his AC to 45 he'd still be hit on an attack roll of 8.

32 AC at level 11 is good, but nowhere near unhittable.

I think the question might not be whether the AC is "too high" to be hit but "too high for the entire package of abilities". I don't know. In a way, it reminds me of the various 3.x classes that got abilities other than Dex added to their AC and the question whether they should stack or not (especially if it's the same ability score.) It's definitely something that needs evaluation. A simple rule would be that you can get only one class ability that adds a bonus to AC, e.g. they don't stack. (Abilities that allow you to use different scores are not so problematic, since you still can use only one ability score.)

 

[UngeheuerLich]

hmm... 52 AC doesn´t seem too broken... even 55 AC... if you are using your hybrid talents for defense, it should be worth a little...

also IIRC swordmage warding works best with a onehanded weapon... so you lose on the damage side... which is a sound decision in that case... if you would still be hit with a 10 if you focus on defense, something is wrong...