Hypothetical question for 3pp: 5e goes OGL what would you publish?

[mxyzplk]

Come on guys, Business 101. Sure, they write good books. Guess what, a lot of publishers languishing out there in RPGNow land write good books. They wrote good stuff off the bat and got the money and buzz so that they could write even better books, pay better writers, buy better art. Do you think anyone without that would get the licenses they've got? They don't give licenses for "writing good books" they give them for business sense. Do you think any brand new company with no sales yet could put out a product like M&M 3e? No, that takes already established pockets and resources.

Don't propagate the pernicious false promise that "if you just work reeeeeallly hard and put your heart into that 300 word manuscript you're writing, suddenly you'll have a successful game company." It's not true and all it gets you is depressed, disappointed creative types who don't realize why life "gave them a raw deal." If you are not smart about how you release, when you release, how you market and/or get free marketing, how you fund your products - you will not be successful. Chalking up Green Ronin (or Paizo, or whoever's) success to nothing but "good books" and not the good business sense those companies' leaders have had reveals a dangerously naive lack of knowledge about publishing and business in general.

 

[delericho]

Sure. But releasing day 1 with some errors versus releasing months later without them - here's a little business sense quiz, which one is way, way, way better for sales?

Initially, the former. However...

People put out like 500 3pp monster books for 3e. I own one - the Sword & Sorcery one. Because they were there first.

S&SS took a massive hit to their credibility once it became apparent just how badly wrong they had gone with their first offering. It had significant knock-on effects to their later sales. And now, they're nowhere.

Likewise, Fast Forward Entertainment generated some significant buzz with their first product, largely due to a lot of big-names being involved. Then they published, a lot of people bought their book... and then never bought anything again because that first book was awful.

Green Ronin went from basically nothing to a large thriving company on the back of its d20 adventures, starting with launch.

Yes, launching on Day One was a massive boost to them. But it would have been for naught without one other factor: "Death in Freeport" is a really good product.

Releasing on Day One will indeed give you a significant boost in sales, for that one product. It will also intensify any responses to that product, be they good or bad. If you produce a good product, it can set you up for years. Produce a bad product, though, and you might as well shut down right there, because you won't live it down.

 

[darjr]

I don't think the point is that they were successful because they were first. Just that because they were first they sold a TON of that product that was first and put their foot in the door with a lot of people. It was a gamble, sure, but for Green Ronin, in hindsight, it was a good bet, and a bad one for S&W. But I don't think there is any doubt that a TON of their product sold because of being available at release at Gen Con.

I don't want to encourage slap dash production just so publishers can have something at release, no no no, but good quality products by a great team can do wonders.

 

[darjr]

At first I think WotC called the license OGL when in fact it wasn't anything of the sort, or even finished.
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthr...info-announced

They later changed the name to GSL and I think now the distinction is well known.

 

[dmccoy1693]

Oh, btw, when I was first told that Wizards was going OGL for 5e, I asked why. The answer I got can best be summarized as this.

 

[Dias Ex Machina]

It's simple economics. WOTC knows they made a mistake with the initial GSL, proven later when they revised it. They know they lost considerable market share to Pathfinder and are aware that Paizo's support of 3rd party products contributed to this (as well as their general public presence in general). But in the intervening years, several other companies have allowed free licensing for their rules (13th Age, Fate Core, Savage Worlds, etc), which has fractured a community previous under the umbrella of Paizo, previously under the umbrella of WOTC. If WOTC were to release 5E under OGL and offer licensing freedom similar to Pathfinder or the old 3rd Edition, it would suck all the 3rd Party Companies under the WOTC banner again.

 

[dmccoy1693]

Well, I don't know if the whole 3pp market will just wing back to them. I suspect it will be a long, slow momentium-requiring shift. It is not going to be an overnight swing, that is for sure. Reason is is that the big 5 back at the end of 3.5 (Necromancer, Paizo, Goodman, Mongoose, and Green Ronin) have all moved on and now all have their own home systems (I'm counting Frog God Games as Necrmancer here). Smaller companies will take up the mantle and produce for 5e, and they will grow in size over time, but it will take time for 5e to be a juggernaut of influence and industry direction again. After all, Wizards didn't lose that distincction in a day (or a year).

 

[Morrus]

Well, I don't know if the whole 3pp market will just wing back to them. I suspect it will be a long, slow momentium-requiring shift. It is not going to be an overnight swing, that is for sure. Reason is is that the big 5 back at the end of 3.5 (Necromancer, Paizo, Goodman, Mongoose, and Green Ronin) have all moved on and now all have their own home systems (I'm counting Frog God Games as Necrmancer here). Smaller companies will take up the mantle and produce for 5e, and they will grow in size over time, but it will take time for 5e to be a juggernaut of influence and industry direction again. After all, Wizards didn't lose that distincction in a day (or a year).

I imagine that many will dabble with a trial product or two (assuming the license is friendly) and then either go ahead full steam or back away again.

 

[dmccoy1693]

I imagine that many will dabble with a trial product or two (assuming the license is friendly) and then either go ahead full steam or back away again.

Right, but we're not going to see monthly 128 page supplements, 64 page adventures, or giant monster books on day 1 from 3PP. It'll probably start off with 10-12 page PDFs for a while until the market has proven (or disproven) itself.

 

[jmucchiello]

If they make an OGL 2.0, I hope they remove the computing limitations. Won't happen because WotC doesn't control their computing rights. But still, I'd love to see the various chargen programs actually support the system without a nod and a wink.

That said, I could come out of retirement for a DDN that was actually OGL.