D&D (2024) I am highly skeptical of the Unreal VTT

[Thomas Shey]

I think "just can't deal with" is kind of an overstatement. How about we include the folks who can deal with it, but don't want to.

I'm expressing it with about the force I've typically seen people who reject it use. Find it overstated? Take it up with them.

 

[ReshiIRE]

I'm not sure why you are insisting that this is a "AAA" video game release.

I mean, there's zero cut scenes. No voice acting. No story at all. There's no computer AI running opponents for the players. There's no physics engine. This is just a 3D modeling suite with a few extra bells and whistles. You have things like this being done by kickstarters. As I mentioned before DM Alchemist is pretty much exactly this - although this might have better graphics.

But, there's no way that this is even remotely as complex as a AAA video game release.

It's still complex software!It won't be as complex as an AAA video game release in a lot of ways as mentioned, but it's going to be complex in different ways to a lot of triple A games - notably, support for user generated content, which has become rarer over time.

How much rules and dice automation is there going to be? Foundry level, something more basic? How configurable is this going to be?

How complex will the editor be and what styles will it support? What type of map size, will customised sets be supported or only Wizards approved ones? How commplex are the pieces going to be? Is there going to be multiple floor support, stacking atop layers, or something more like Talespire that allows you to zoom the camera to different spots to see different layers?

What about rules to support homebrew - there's going to be big demand for that. Will that have any automation?

What toggles will be there to support variant rules?

How will it link in with D&D Beyond?

What will the performance impact be on DMs compared to players? How much data and processing will be on the server side? How is that going to scale?

Will they need to make any changes to the graphical pipeline to support what they need to do?

How are they going to handle the various different 3d models they want to support - they presumably will need some sophsiticated system to swap in and out different parts.

Will they ahve any matchmaking? Will that all be handled inside the app - or will some of it be possible to be managed from D&D Beyond?
What other technical challenges are there going to be that's unexpected? Those always arise.

I wonder what unique challenges UE5 will present to them - it is great software and a great engine, no doubt, but there will likely be unexpected sore points. How will they deal with the kinks?

My overall point is that I think I have reason to be sceptical. As much as I enjoy what I have used of Talespire - a 3d VTT funded by Kickstarter - it is very much just a map, some models, and moving them about. There are no tools to the level of Foundry, but that's to be expected of a smaller team working on something much more graphically complex and somewhat more complex in terms of moving characters about and handling map creation, etc.

Is that enough for what people will expect of WotC? What will people expect, especially with the promises WoTC are making? And will it match the price that they charge?

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Never forget Gleemax!

Yeah that was like 12 years ago I don’t care

 

[MonsterEnvy]

I imagine there will be automation in the game, and I imagine it will be easier implemented cause it’s only being designed to work with one system.

 

[Zaukrie]

It's still complex software!It won't be as complex as an AAA video game release in a lot of ways as mentioned, but it's going to be complex in different ways to a lot of triple A games - notably, support for user generated content, which has become rarer over time.

How much rules and dice automation is there going to be? Foundry level, something more basic? How configurable is this going to be?

How complex will the editor be and what styles will it support? What type of map size, will customised sets be supported or only Wizards approved ones? How commplex are the pieces going to be? Is there going to be multiple floor support, stacking atop layers, or something more like Talespire that allows you to zoom the camera to different spots to see different layers?

What about rules to support homebrew - there's going to be big demand for that. Will that have any automation?

What toggles will be there to support variant rules?

How will it link in with D&D Beyond?

What will the performance impact be on DMs compared to players? How much data and processing will be on the server side? How is that going to scale?

Will they need to make any changes to the graphical pipeline to support what they need to do?

How are they going to handle the various different 3d models they want to support - they presumably will need some sophsiticated system to swap in and out different parts.

Will they ahve any matchmaking? Will that all be handled inside the app - or will some of it be possible to be managed from D&D Beyond?
What other technical challenges are there going to be that's unexpected? Those always arise.

I wonder what unique challenges UE5 will present to them - it is great software and a great engine, no doubt, but there will likely be unexpected sore points. How will they deal with the kinks?

My overall point is that I think I have reason to be sceptical. As much as I enjoy what I have used of Talespire - a 3d VTT funded by Kickstarter - it is very much just a map, some models, and moving them about. There are no tools to the level of Foundry, but that's to be expected of a smaller team working on something much more graphically complex and somewhat more complex in terms of moving characters about and handling map creation, etc.

Is that enough for what people will expect of WotC? What will people expect, especially with the promises WoTC are making? And will it match the price that they charge?

DNDbeyond has almost all the rules, a combat tracker, etc. That part isn't in beta.... It's done.

 

[Bill Zebub]

I think I'd prefer to be excited and hopeful even if I end up disappointed, rather than be skeptical/cynical and be pleasantly surprised. I just think it's a nicer way to go through life.

 

[Hussar]

Yeah, I'm really not seeing any real issues here @ReshiIRE . For one, we already have numerous VTT's that do every single thing you've listed, and do it pretty well. Meaning that none of the things they're proposing are particularly cutting edge. Automation of mechanics isn't exactly a hugely complex thing. And I find the notion that D&D is massively more complex for a computer program than, say, Call of Duty, to be difficult to believe.

But, sure, we're going to have to wait and see.

 

[ReshiIRE]

I mean, that's fair. It's valid to be excited and hopeful. I just wanted too give reasons why I am not.

I will admit I am biased against Wizards mainly because they have disappointed me in the past (though mainly in the treatment of their workers). I'm not typically sceptical and cyncial about things either. Though honestly I prefer being pleasantly surprised.

 

[MarkB]

There are a number of services such as HeroForge which allow people to create highly detailed minis in-browser, and then purchase them either as 3D printer files or physical minis. Despite the expense, a lot of players seem to use them in order to get just the right look for their character.

As I speculated upthread, it would not at all surprise me if WotC either acquires such an app or builds their own, and adds the option to export your mini to their VTT.

So, interesting nugget - I posted the above purely as speculation, but it turns out that Heroforge have already partnered with another 3D-minis-based VTT to allow importing of their minis into that program.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bouncyrock/talespire/posts/3290221

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I saw that in an ad on YouTube yesterday. If I were WotC, I'd just buy Talespire and Heroforge and be done with it. Integrate it with D&D Beyond, and they're years ahead of the game, instead of needing to reinvent the wheel.