D&D (2024) I am highly skeptical of the Unreal VTT

[Reynard]

This is my only concern.

Cloud gaming is becoming ubiquitous so that may be their solution to run the thing on ipads and whatnot. You will probably still be out of luck without decent internet service, though.

Alright then, let's say you're right. Say 10 million (the number of DDB users) is the current number. Granted, that's not all that solid either since someone could have made an account and then stopped playing, but, sure, let's use 10 million.

Now, again, FG is running about 100 000 tables. Roll 20 about the same number. So, at best, you're looking at 1 million gamers. Let's double that for everyone else. That still puts current VTT gamers at about 20%. Again, unless you think 90% of online gaming is being done by other programs and there's this massive group of silent people who game online but are impossible to count, my point still stands.

Note, also, that that 200 000 tables is of all games, not just D&D. The actual number of D&D tables is about 2/3rds of that (give or take).

Does it really matter if it's 5, 15 or 25%? FFS, the POINT is that online gaming is a fairly small niche of the total gaming community. WotC having a VTT is not really going to change that. It's simply a new market avenue, not a replacement for face to face gamers.

You know I'm not the one you were arguing with on that point, right? I'm honestly curious how prevalent VTT use is, given that WotC is obviously going all in. No one that I am aware of in this thread said face to face gaming is going extinct, so I'm not sure why you are so incensed. But folks should not mindlessly repeat misinformation.

 

[Hussar]

Cloud gaming is becoming ubiquitous so that may be their solution to run the thing on ipads and whatnot. You will probably still be out of luck without decent internet service, though.

You know I'm not the one you were arguing with on that point, right? I'm honestly curious how prevalent VTT use is, given that WotC is obviously going all in. No one that I am aware of in this thread said face to face gaming is going extinct, so I'm not sure why you are so incensed. But folks should not mindlessly repeat misinformation.

More just somewhat grumpy that the point was getting missed with all the back and forth over the exact numbers. It really doesn't change the point if you change the numbers.

I suspect WotC would very much like it if they could do similar with D&D. DMs are the sticking point, but I would be unsurprised if WotC worked hard to find workarounds for that (specially-designed DM-less adventures, AI DMs, etc.) - but probably not for a few years, I think matchmaking will be the tactic initially.

Well, judging from my experience with VTT's, it gets to a certain critical mass and from that point, it's more about just finding the right group for your play style. It doesn't actually take that many either. If you've got a thousand DM's, that means there's a game starting like every ten minutes of every day of the week. ((No, I didn't actually check that math - feel free to correct me if you fell like))

Frankly, I'm utterly shocked that it's taken this long. It just seems like such a no brainer to me. What a fantastic resource for any gaming company - a complete record of thousands of games in real time. Just the market research alone would make a VTT worth it.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Cloud gaming is becoming ubiquitous so that may be their solution to run the thing on ipads and whatnot. You will probably still be out of luck without decent internet service, though.

I mean, sorta?

The trouble is there's no "neutral" cloud service for WotC to use. In order to deliver graphics like the demo, they'd need something which had fairly serious amounts of power at the other end. What's interesting is, no-one yet has managed to make a cloud gaming thing which is truly virtual (correct me if I'm wrong but please only if you actually have a source that disagrees), as in, like, it can flex up and down on what hardware it's using and so on, in a truly flexible way. Primarily because that would require stuff to be programmed differently. Stadia, for example, is just a bunch of racked consoles (each a bit more powerful than a PS4 Pro, less powerful than a PS5), connected to networked storage. You are actually playing on an actual console, it's not a virtual console. GeForce Now, as I understand it, does similar with racked PCs and graphics cards. I dunno exactly how the PS and Xbox ones work, but I suspect for anything current-gen, if they do, it's similar (racked PS5 and Xbox One hardware connected to networked storage). Older gen might be able to be emulated virtually.

You just want cloud processing of information, or cloud storage, there are a million billion solutions, including some just-great ones. But none are suitable for this kind of game-like app.

They might be able to partner with Google (now Stadia has failed, they're looking for new uses, I hear) or MS to do it, but I'd be surprised if that made sense financially.

That said, if this is successful, odds on Microsoft acquiring Hasbro/WotC within a decade? Pretty good, I'd say.

 

[Ystraeth]

In can't imagine ever needing anything remotely like this. It feels like an awful way to take part in an entertainment medium that is at its best face to face (with no intervening screens) anyway. I get online gaming works or is the only option for many, but for me this takes a poor experience makes it terrible. The again, I prefer no gaming to online gaming generally (i've done both - the latter just isn't gaming for me).

Heh, I'm quite definitely not the target market for this stuff

 

[HaroldTheHobbit]

Does it really matter if it's 5, 15 or 25%? FFS, the POINT is that online gaming is a fairly small niche of the total gaming community. WotC having a VTT is not really going to change that. It's simply a new market avenue, not a replacement for face to face gamers.

On the other hand, I guess a pretty substantial part of the online gamers are like me and my table - old friends that has discovered during the pandemic that VTT gaming save lots of time and car miles, so we can cram out more gaming time each week.

And many of us older VTT gamers have jobs and ok disposable income, which should make us an attractive consumer group even if we are a smallish part of the total gaming community.

 

[Zaukrie]

The level of cynicism in this thread is amazing, even for the internet. I'm hopeful. I guess I'm getting soft in my old age.

 

[HaroldTheHobbit]

The level of cynicism in this thread is amazing, even for the internet. I'm hopeful. I guess I'm getting soft in my old age.

Softness is a curse, it stands in the way for true grognard grumpiness evolution! ;-)

 

[Reynard]

On the other hand, I guess a pretty substantial part of the online gamers are like me and my table - old friends that has discovered during the pandemic that VTT gaming save lots of time and car miles, so we can cram out more gaming time each week.

And many of us older VTT gamers have jobs and ok disposable income, which should make us an attractive consumer group even if we are a smallish part of the total gaming community.

I play with friends ranging from 20 to 500 miles away, in addition to a local group that switched to VTT during the pandemic and has realized we actually get more gaming in by cutting out the commute.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

The level of cynicism in this thread is amazing, even for the internet. I'm hopeful. I guess I'm getting soft in my old age.

Never forget Gleemax!

 

[Zaukrie]

Never forget Gleemax!

Great example. But sure, people will die, and things will fall apart.