D&D 5E (2014) I believe the Greyhawk Campaign setting was a missed opportunity for Wizards of the Coast.

[Nebulous]

I haven't read through the thread, so I apologize if I'm repeating what someone has already said, but I think there's a disconnect with many people about the broad appeal of Greyhawk, which in my opinion is significantly less than the Forgotten Realms. Fans of Greyhawk tend to be older and grew up on Gygaxian D&D. This is not to say that I think WotC shouldn't offer a nice, perhaps even deluxe, commemorative hardcover or box set for Greyhawk, but I think they made the right decision, at least in terms of not making Greyhawk the default setting. The Realms simply has broader appeal, in my opinion.

I agree, the Realms has far broader appeal.

 

[aramis erak]

It's sad that one of the oldest settings has seen the least amount of "love" and good development.

It was never well developed. The best product released in terms of setting materials was the 1983 box... and it was pretty minimal. And a "bare minimum" product set generates a bare minimum fan support.

If one wanted a strong setting in 1978-about 1985, one didn't look to TSR, but to Judges Guild.

Not to mention that the released was really not that strongly tied to what Gygax actually used himself.

 

[I'm A Banana]

So why not let the designers focus on Greyhawk as the default setting and let Ed Greenwood and his crew focus on doing Forgotten Realms?

Because Forgotten Realms sells more paper than Greyhawk. Why blow salaried hours on things that aren't going to bring as big a return on investment?

I don't have to think about the brand in this case because I'm sure most people who bought Hoard of the Dragon Queen, would have done so no matter what world you have it in.

I'd wager WotC has better records on what sells than you do. And I'd be actually a little surprised if some people didn't by Hoard just because it was an FR story. Probably no one on ENWorld, but puh-lenty of folks outside of this little sphere.

You have can have both settings working side by side. Older Forgotten Realms is what's popular, not the new stuff. Brand recognition is only good for those who liked the new direction and I'm afraid it weren't many.

Making any D&D product costs money. If you're directing the design team, you're going to want them to work on things that earn back more than you spent on it (ideally, x2 or more). If FR stuff makes more money than Greyhawk stuff, you're going to want them to work on FR stuff. If the marketing team has noted that the Temple of Elemental Evil has some traction, you are going to put out an adventure featuring the Temple of Elemental Evil in the Forgotten Realms.

Supporting Greyhawk is a thing they might want to do at some point, but it isn't something that is obligatory, and it isn't something that is necessarily going to provide a return on investment like FR.

 

[Parmandur]

Forgotten Realms is not the default setting; Planescape is the default meta-setting, but nothing is the default the way Greyhawk was presented in 3E.



Forgotten Realms sells books, video games and board games. They have an Elemental Evil board game tying into the next plotline, and they are selling premium content for Neverwinter to tie in to stuff.



Neverwinter, by all accounts, isn't that super a game, but it is very successful as a business venture. I know people who have worked on Free-to-Play games, and they can be shockingly huge money makers if people are playing them, and people are playing Neverwinter.



If they get something like a Sigil MMO, then I'll wager major setting support for different worlds would be more of a thing. But it still doesn't mean FR is "default" to 5E.

 

[Sailor Moon]

I haven't read through the thread, so I apologize if I'm repeating what someone has already said, but I think there's a disconnect with many people about the broad appeal of Greyhawk, which in my opinion is significantly less than the Forgotten Realms. Fans of Greyhawk tend to be older and grew up on Gygaxian D&D. This is not to say that I think WotC shouldn't offer a nice, perhaps even deluxe, commemorative hardcover or box set for Greyhawk, but I think they made the right decision, at least in terms of not making Greyhawk the default setting. The Realms simply has broader appeal, in my opinion.

Look at it two ways.

New people: If you are new then most likely you wouldn't know Forgotten Realms from Greyhawk so you would have the opportunity to modernize the Greyhawk and run it side by side with FR.

Already a gamer: Just bring it up to date because at least you've heard about it through Vecna, Mordenkainen, Melf and a few others.

 

[Sailor Moon]

Forgotten Realms is not the default setting; Planescape is the default meta-setting, but nothing is the default the way Greyhawk was presented in 3E.



Forgotten Realms sells books, video games and board games. They have an Elemental Evil board game tying into the next plotline, and they are selling premium content for Neverwinter to tie in to stuff.



Neverwinter, by all accounts, isn't that super a game, but it is very successful as a business venture. I know people who have worked on Free-to-Play games, and they can be shockingly huge money makers if people are playing them, and people are playing Neverwinter.



If they get something like a Sigil MMO, then I'll wager major setting support for different worlds would be more of a thing. But it still doesn't mean FR is "default" to 5E.

Forgotten Realms sells books, they aren't selling many games at the moment. Neverwinter is not a great a game and because it is free to play, that is why it really has an audience. They are really trying to tie in everything with a mediocre video game and it isn't going to turn out well.

 

[Mercurius]

Look at it two ways.

New people: If you are new then most likely you wouldn't know Forgotten Realms from Greyhawk so you would have the opportunity to modernize the Greyhawk and run it side by side with FR.

Already a gamer: Just bring it up to date because at least you've heard about it through Vecna, Mordenkainen, Melf and a few others.

See, the problem is that those two ways could contradict each other. To sufficiently "modernize" Greyhawk to appeal to a broad base than you risk alienating old fans of the setting.

I just think that the Forgotten Realms, as is, has a broader appeal than Greyhawk, but still also includes all of the D&D conventions and tropes, and is "classic enough" (I mean, technically it is actually older than Greyhawk, I believe, even if it was first in publication over a decade later).

All of this is aside from what my preference is, mind you. I know it probably won't happen, but I'd rather see WotC focus on a new setting, developing it in similar detail to Pathfinder's Golarion, but also publish commemorative deluxe hardcovers of the classic settings, once per year for the holidays. One can dream...

 

[Parmandur]

Forgotten Realms sells books, they aren't selling many games at the moment. Neverwinter is not a great a game and because it is free to play, that is why it really has an audience. They are really trying to tie in everything with a mediocre video game and it isn't going to turn out well.

The old ones, via Beamdog, are actively selling well at the moment, to the extent that new Baldurs Gate game is in the works.

Free to Play, when 2 million people are playing as with Neverwinter, translates to serious cash. It's a funny model, but it works.

The board games are popular, too. A number of people might know the FR primarily through Lords of Waterdeep at this point.

In contrast, Greyhawk has had one video game, ever, and no board games since maybe I was 6. Not so much recognition, yet it is still one of the primary supported settings in the core books.

 

[Count_Zero]

The old ones, via Beamdog, are actively selling well at the moment, to the extent that new Baldurs Gate game is in the works.

Free to Play, when 2 million people are playing as with Neverwinter, translates to serious cash. It's a funny model, but it works.

The board games are popular, too. A number of people might know the FR primarily through Lords of Waterdeep at this point.

In contrast, Greyhawk has had one video game, ever, and no board games since maybe I was 6. Not so much recognition, yet it is still one of the primary supported settings in the core books.

Oh, and it's only novels were, to my knowledge, the Gord the Rogue novels. I've only read the first book in the series, but it was... not great.

 

[billd91]

Oh, and it's only novels were, to my knowledge, the Gord the Rogue novels. I've only read the first book in the series, but it was... not great.

Oh, there's much worse out there. Greyhawk novels did not stop with Gord.