D&D 5E I don't actually get the opposition for the warlord... or rather the opposition to the concept.

[Miladoon]

I think you could be right an here's what id do to make that a reality:

1.) Permit the Bard's Cutting Words & Combat Inspiration to be maneuvers that the Battlemaster can learn.
2.) Add or trade the Healer Feat for the 3rd level Student of War Feature.
3.) Take Inspiring Leader Feat that gives temp HP to the party.
4.) Add PDK's ability that permits an ally to attack when you use action surge (as a learnable maneuver)
5.) Add PDK's ability to transfer uses of Indomitable (as a learnable maneuver).
6.) Permit nearby allies to benefit from your fighting style (if they meet applicable conditions & prerequisites)

In this way, such a Battlemaster would be learning the maneuvers he'd actually be using in support (whereas, left as it is in the PH, you end up with some you just won't use if you're playing support). And it doesn't add any extra goodies beyond a standard Battlemaster (he's learning maneuvers out of the normal allotment & trading equivalent features).

Now, that's MUCH closer to acceptable for me. Might even do the job entirely (I'd need to play a few sessions to be sure), but it feels about right to me.

Since Feats are optional, I probably would add more maneuvers to the BM write up. But yeah, I think going crazy with the pieces works too.

 

[Bawylie]

Since Feats are optional, I probably would add more maneuvers to the BM write up. But yeah, I think going crazy with the pieces works too.

I might also cannibalize some attacks for some maneuvers.

 

[Lord Twig]

[MENTION=996]Tony Vargas[/MENTION]
If all you got from all of my posts is "Because I'm selfish" you missed quite a bit.

In addition to that the main problem, in my eyes, is that the mere existence of a Warlord requires everyone at the table to accept explanations for situations and events that are required for the Warlord to work.

Hit points are not meat, ever. You will be inspired by the Warlord (or Bard, just as bad IMO). You will benefit from following the Warlord's orders or advice (or whatever you want to say it is that isn't a command). You will never be performing at your absolute best unless there is a Warlord around to tell you what you are missing.

Yes, a lot of these are shared with other classes, but the Warlord takes them all and puts them in one big package.

I'm not the only one that dislikes the Warlord. It is not just me. We are legion. (Okay, I don't know how true that last one is. I just wanted to say it. But there are still a lot of us.)

 

[Lord Twig]

I was at an AL event recently and the DM announced that one of the baddies was bloodied.

What is that? I wanted to ask.

EDIT: [MENTION=4650]Lord[/MENTION]Twig

Not sure why this is directed at me, I've played 4e a grand total of twice, but my understanding is that bloodied is when an opponent or character has taken at least half of his hit points in damage.

 

[Miladoon]

....But that really seems to limit your descriptions of damage.

sry.

I was responding to this. Part of the fuel for inspirational regaining of hit points is because the 5E has no requirement to describe damage in any way. Fire damage from a fireball only assigns a type of damage but a dude could walk right through a fireball and not have any RAW burns. Most DMs I know, and even those in the AL, will take the time to describe meat hits.

 

[El Mahdi]

So I think I understand a bit where the Warlord fans are coming from.

Non-magic healing isn't healing wounds, it's healing whatever it is HPs represent which can be things other than wounds.

You can always improve someone's performance with good leadership/inspirational support.

Magic isn't required to do extraordinary, even unbelievably powerful, things.

Spot On!!!

I wonder if people have the same feeling about technology. Because that's how I view magic. It is a well understood science in the world of D&D. Do you object to using night-vision googles? Smoke grenades? Laser sights on a rifle? That's what magic is doing. It isn't taking anything away from the person using it. It is just a tool that can be used.

I'm assuming you mean technology in a fantasy game? Or just that Magic is the "technology" of D&D?

Either way, my thoughts on this mirror Clarke's Third Law: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

I use this concept in my games. My campaign world (and maybe someday, also my literary world) considers Elves as a very old and advanced race - one technically in its decline, though the players don't know this. Their physical abilities are the product of genetic engineering. Most of their magic and fantastic items are the product of advanced technology or knowledge - far beyond where we are today.

Magic is utilized but poorly understood by Humans. Elves have explored it for a couple of million years. To them, it's merely an understanding of the natural universe beyond what Humans understand - or are currently capable of understanding. But those Humans are voracious for knowledge and persistent in their pursuits! Give them a couple of thousand years and they may even catch up to where the Elves are now - or maybe even surpass them (*shudder*). That is if they don't destroy themselves first...


I think the majority of our modern world would appear as incredibly magical to someone from the Middle Ages. And I like to play around with that concept in my games.

So to me healing without magic is like trying to do surgery without medical tools. Sure you can help some, but if you really want to get the job done you need to use the right tools.

That's Cool. Whatever works for you.

 

[Tony Vargas]

If all you got from all of my posts is "Because I'm selfish" you missed quite a bit.

It's just the only thing you said that had any bearing on the OP you were trying to answer. You acknowledged being 'a bit' selfish in demanding the game exclude the warlord.

As it stands, if there's any class in the game someone doesn't like they can refrain from playing that class and/or, as a DM, ban it from their campaign. Nothing about the Warlord would make it any different in that regard.

Or just that Magic is the "technology" of D&D?

It really kinda is, at least in the de-facto/default 'high magic' style.

Either way, my thoughts on this mirror Clarke's Third Law: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

So, is there a corollary: "Any sufficiently bland, available, and widely understood magic is indistinguishable from technology?" Because that's a malaise D&D (or any other FRPG) seems to come down with sometimes. The rules so quantify magic that it looses any sense of the fantastic.

 

[Miladoon]

I might also cannibalize some attacks for some maneuvers.

Cannibalize all the attacks and you will have no reason to have maneuvers. Just make a warlord...

 

[Bawylie]

Cannibalize all the attacks and you will have no reason to have maneuvers. Just make a warlord...

Maneuvers only work when you attack, so, at best you cannibalize 2/round at level 20 and generally at most 1/round beginning at level 5.

Not the worst thing in the world, surely.

 

[Lord Twig]

Spot On!!!




I'm assuming you mean technology in a fantasy game? Or just that Magic is the "technology" of D&D?

Either way, my thoughts on this mirror Clarke's Third Law: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

I use this concept in my games. My campaign world (and maybe someday, also my literary world) considers Elves as a very old and advanced race - one technically in its decline, though the players don't know this. Their physical abilities are the product of genetic engineering. Most of their magic and fantastic items are the product of advanced technology or knowledge - far beyond where we are today.

Magic is utilized but poorly understood by Humans. Elves have explored it for a couple of million years. To them, it's merely an understanding of the natural universe beyond what Humans understand - or are currently capable of understanding. But those Humans are voracious for knowledge and persistent in their pursuits! Give them a couple of thousand years and they may even catch up to where the Elves are now - or maybe even surpass them (*shudder*). That is if they don't destroy themselves first...


I think the majority of our modern world would appear as incredibly magical to someone from the Middle Ages. And I like to play around with that concept in my games.




That's Cool. Whatever works for you.

Yep, so I understand. I just don't care for it in my game. To each their own!

I have already said that I would be fine with Warlord as an optional Unearthed Arcana class. It is easier to allow an optional class than to ban a standard class. I don't doubt there are at least a few people that wish the Monk was in that situation.

I love your take on magic as technology. Very interesting concept. And Clarke's Third Law certainly applies. In addition, any sufficiently understood magic is indistinguishable from technology.

Thanks for the informative discussion!